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This Cannoli Send a noteboard - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM
His whole point isn't that she's passive, it's that she's not in control of her own decisions.
I would love to hear some examples from you, which show where he s wrong. It would help him to put his arguments (and to be honest yours too, which so far boils down to "I haven't really read what he said, but he is wrong, believe me";) in perspective.


Speaking as someone who has read the book, the author has a point. To a certain degree, many of her decisions are negated by the actions of others in the book. What the author doesn't mention is that this is a theme of the book. They live in a very controlled society, undera very strict authoritarian government. They are kidnapped away from their families, forced to perform in costumes provided by others. Manipulated in interviews and by their mentors. Then thrust into an arena where every aspect of the environment can be twisted and changed by the people on the outside to manipulate reactions from the characters.

The loss of female "agency" in the book isn't so much an anti-feminist portrayal. It is an integral theme to the series and it most definitely continues through the other books.

That said, there are times in all three books where Katniss forces her own will into the situation. Volunteering as tribute is the most obvious one that comes to mind for the first book. Choosing to take poison with Peeta at the end is another. She is not allowed to follow through with that for obvious reasons, but she turned the tables on the game makers to force their hands.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2422 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 1179 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 1005 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 1132 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 984 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 924 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 1092 Views
Where do I start? - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 1096 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 951 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 1004 Views
His racism point... - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 908 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 987 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 1098 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 991 Views
I just don't consider feminism as something that has to be radical. - 04/04/2012 05:42:59 AM 1061 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 1047 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 1015 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 1048 Views
Fair enough - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 1096 Views
Stop using female as a noun! - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 986 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 1032 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 987 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 906 Views
Thank you! - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 1022 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 1007 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 1046 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 960 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 931 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 1161 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 905 Views
That's not what I said. - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 1074 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 966 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 972 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 1002 Views
Nope. (edit) - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 1004 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 1059 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 940 Views
Ok. - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 1247 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 1000 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 1004 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 1089 Views
LOL! You don't say... - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 976 Views
LOL u so mad - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 962 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 955 Views
My dear - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 1018 Views
LOL - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 838 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 837 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 982 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 945 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 933 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 955 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 984 Views
ooookay then. - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 1029 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 05/04/2012 02:08:26 AM 1011 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 886 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 932 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 959 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 978 Views
Fascinating. - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 982 Views
Re: Fascinating. - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 979 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 972 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 1033 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 907 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 936 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 934 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 1071 Views
Aha, we found the problem - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 1044 Views
You're being disingenuous. - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 953 Views
To be fair - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 987 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 1008 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 951 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 957 Views
This - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 953 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 946 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 997 Views
I think that might be debatable - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 975 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 920 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 1034 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 927 Views
Rachel, of course. - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 1024 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 1026 Views