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Fascinating. Vivien Send a noteboard - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM
You spoke with such pretentious authority about how words ought to be used, but once people started disagreeing with you it becomes "oh, well, I dislike that word, and a few others too". Where'd that should go?


Female should not be used as a noun to refer to women and I dislike it when it is used as a noun. There's not a contradiction. It should be used as an adjective, just like male is used as an adjective and not a noun when it refers to men. Once people started disagreeing with me? People were/are always disagreeing with me. [People who agree with me rarely feel the need to lend their voice to the argument] At no point did I change my stance, I've been very consistent. I never said 'oh, well, I dislike that word, and a few others too'. What few others?

You're getting flack for this? Oh yes, I see the hordes upon hordes of people giving you flack for being so very brave to enter the fray of O horror of horrors, how dare Vivien say that the word female should be used as an adjective (just like the word male) instead of a noun. It's both an issue of correct grammar and the dislike of female as a noun- it's very unpleasant to read or hear the use of female as a noun.

It's fascinating how some people discount others' feelings so automatically and sharply. It's not just that you're not willing to take them into consideration, but you have to go on a crusade to try to prove that my perspective and feelings are invalid. In regular life, if someone has different perspectives and feelings do you need to prove that they are wrong and only your outlook is correct?




The fact is, "male" and "female" in ordinary American language do not have the connotations you're ascribing to them. The only people who are agreeing with you are people who have a less than perfect grasp of American colloquial language, while the people here who have been objecting to you are native speakers who grew up with the language.

I'll probably get some flack for this, but frankly, it should be emphasized more. I'm not being a bigot, I am saying the following. Despite the fact that Americans eat cheeseburgers and hate healthcare, American English is in fact a very complex and nuanced language that people ought to respect just a bit more, particularly with issues this subtle. It should be afforded the same respect as Japanese or Attic Greek. Being raised here does matter in some of these liminal cases. Being intelligent, watching movies, and reading books will not help someone on an issue that is this complex. You need to be a native speaker living here.






Seriously this is the kind of radical feminism that is ridiculous. Female the word is in now way derogatory simply on its own can it be used that way...sure but so can any other descriptive term..."Well he's just male so you can't expect him to understand". Feminism in its best form is the radical notion that women are people...and that it is it. You go beyond that and you are getting into crazy town. I wouldn't call this a feminist movie because I like to think we have gotten past the idea that women can't be physically strong and active. But seeing a physically strong and outdoorsy female character is certainly always nice there are not enough of them. Anything that breaks the crazy princess stereotype is a good thing.


I'm not the only one that feels discomfort with the use of female as a noun. There are a couple men that spoke up in agreement and the responses to them have been respectful and polite. Why am I the only one being attacked like this?
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The Hunger Games gets a ... different kind of review. - 03/04/2012 03:37:39 PM 2319 Views
"Written by a female with femalist themes" - 03/04/2012 04:38:54 PM 1095 Views
Ok, I did and basically it's garbage. *NM* - 03/04/2012 04:53:00 PM 910 Views
I grant that I haven't read the Hunger Games yet - 03/04/2012 05:10:38 PM 1035 Views
No, it's totally off. *NM* - 03/04/2012 05:39:03 PM 903 Views
fair enough. like I said, I haven't read it yet. *NM* - 03/04/2012 07:20:34 PM 847 Views
I can only speak for the film, which was not feminist. - 03/04/2012 06:01:18 PM 1009 Views
Where do I start? - 03/04/2012 07:43:18 PM 1013 Views
Hermoine was the most kick ass of the Potter kids. - 04/04/2012 03:08:17 AM 875 Views
So? Hunger Games has lots of male characters. - 04/04/2012 05:30:21 AM 936 Views
His racism point... - 04/04/2012 02:32:43 PM 823 Views
Makes me almost wish I knew the source material so I could judge what he is saying - 03/04/2012 10:50:48 PM 920 Views
Why don't you think the Hunger Games are feminist? - 03/04/2012 11:17:53 PM 1023 Views
Why would I consider it to be femenist? - 04/04/2012 01:51:24 AM 913 Views
Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 08:22:35 AM 962 Views
Re: Completely agree with your first paragraph - 04/04/2012 01:43:55 PM 929 Views
Unfortunately truly ordinary female characters are so rare that the exceptions stand out - 04/04/2012 01:49:16 PM 967 Views
Fair enough - 04/04/2012 02:33:22 PM 1007 Views
Stop using female as a noun! - 04/04/2012 03:51:13 PM 914 Views
It's stuff like that that makes you lose cred - 04/04/2012 05:26:24 PM 925 Views
It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 04/04/2012 07:30:18 PM 913 Views
I don't think Jens was really using it that way, though - 04/04/2012 07:34:28 PM 849 Views
Thank you! - 04/04/2012 08:03:38 PM 949 Views
Of course he didn't intend it that way, but that's how it sounds. - 04/04/2012 08:06:03 PM 931 Views
I understand that, but it's still such a ridiculous thing to get fussed over - 04/04/2012 09:20:01 PM 971 Views
You are rather exaggerating just how "fussed" anyone did get, you do realize. - 04/04/2012 09:51:22 PM 884 Views
Her tone was not just "informative". It was accusatory - 04/04/2012 10:17:57 PM 857 Views
Female is perfectly acceptable to use in a medical/clinical setting. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:36:57 PM 1100 Views
so if your problem is people using it disparagingly... - 04/04/2012 10:45:10 PM 828 Views
That's not what I said. - 04/04/2012 10:51:41 PM 942 Views
I'm going to have to just outright disagree with you then. *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:54:25 PM 878 Views
If I wanted to be accusatory... - 04/04/2012 11:05:37 PM 890 Views
Are you a native English speaker, Legolas? (Clarified to preempt possible internet tears) - 06/04/2012 09:29:28 AM 922 Views
Nope. (edit) - 06/04/2012 07:23:54 PM 907 Views
Re: Nope. (edit) - 07/04/2012 04:51:30 AM 972 Views
"Female that"? That's even worse. - 07/04/2012 11:42:00 AM 866 Views
Ok. - 07/04/2012 03:27:16 PM 1150 Views
Re: It's fairly derogatory as a noun, though, have to agree with Vivien on that one. - 05/04/2012 02:21:21 AM 920 Views
I think the language difference is really interesting. - 05/04/2012 03:13:03 PM 925 Views
English is not French, and it's not German. Particularly the connotations of American English words - 06/04/2012 09:39:00 AM 999 Views
LOL! You don't say... - 06/04/2012 05:06:20 PM 892 Views
LOL u so mad - 06/04/2012 06:19:28 PM 881 Views
The prospect of "losing cred" is not going to stop me from speaking my mind. - 04/04/2012 10:30:03 PM 880 Views
My dear - 09/04/2012 01:07:34 PM 939 Views
LOL - 09/04/2012 01:57:53 PM 773 Views
guess what, it is a noun. *NM* - 04/04/2012 07:26:39 PM 759 Views
That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 08:19:02 PM 883 Views
well it's important that you say "female human" - 04/04/2012 09:28:45 PM 879 Views
Re: That's the first time I have ever heard/seen anyone say that. - 04/04/2012 10:48:07 PM 870 Views
wait, so now you're claiming it's a grammatical thing? *NM* - 04/04/2012 10:58:31 PM 880 Views
No, I have issues with words that begin with the letter f. - 04/04/2012 11:09:45 PM 909 Views
ooookay then. - 04/04/2012 11:11:23 PM 966 Views
Re: Stop using female as a noun! - 05/04/2012 02:18:47 PM 823 Views
If dislike of the use of female as a noun makes me crazy town, I'm not the only crazy in here. - 05/04/2012 05:59:16 PM 861 Views
For the record, I certainly don't think you're crazy town. - 05/04/2012 07:23:18 PM 876 Views
Oh, so now we're using 'dislike' instead of 'should'. It's funny how you fell back on that. - 06/04/2012 10:01:59 AM 892 Views
Fascinating. - 06/04/2012 09:54:47 PM 921 Views
Re: Fascinating. - 07/04/2012 03:54:26 AM 898 Views
Just in case (however slim that chance may be) you are genuinely interested in citations/references. - 07/04/2012 05:34:37 AM 897 Views
What a joke. Do you even know what grammar is? - 07/04/2012 05:57:40 AM 954 Views
Oh, come off it. This should be the point where you admit to being wrong. - 07/04/2012 12:11:07 PM 836 Views
Sorry, no. Read better. - 07/04/2012 02:23:10 PM 868 Views
*deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 06:38:08 PM 851 Views
Re: *deletes long reply* Let's focus on the essence here. - 07/04/2012 09:26:34 PM 970 Views
Aha, we found the problem - 09/04/2012 01:03:35 PM 958 Views
You're being disingenuous. - 09/04/2012 12:57:38 PM 878 Views
To be fair - 04/04/2012 02:37:25 PM 915 Views
You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 01:46:16 PM 943 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 02:23:33 PM 888 Views
Re: You didn't see thmovie? She is far from passive - 04/04/2012 07:51:46 PM 894 Views
This - 05/04/2012 12:20:04 AM 881 Views
I got half way through the review and got bored. - 04/04/2012 03:09:58 AM 856 Views
And it appears the writer of the article completely missed a central point of the story *spoilers* - 04/04/2012 05:44:40 AM 923 Views
I think that might be debatable - 05/04/2012 06:59:35 PM 899 Views
She still made plenty of choices and she did choose to kill. - 05/04/2012 07:13:47 PM 849 Views
The reviewer is kind of full of it, but makes a good point about the character - 04/04/2012 04:22:30 PM 948 Views
Out of curiosity (this off topic) - 04/04/2012 07:32:25 PM 852 Views
Rachel, of course. - 05/04/2012 12:17:41 AM 916 Views
Well. Now I've actually seen it. (mild spoilers) - 09/04/2012 12:17:03 AM 960 Views