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You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. BlackAdder Send a noteboard - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM

I think Siuan is a lesser woman. Even in NS she was better than she is now. She may be a good advisor with a sharp mind, but she's still a shadow of what she was.


If anything, Siuan's own thoughts in tGS should show that she is now a stronger and subtler woman.

As she realizes, she relied too much on her great strength in the Power before. She was manipulative, devious but not very subtle. She could, and did, run roughshod over any opposition.

Weakened, she has been forced to use her mind to its fullest potential. And in the process has realized that power blinds you to those you think are weaker, and allows them to manipulate you.

Even if she does regain her full strength, she's never going to go back to her old ways. With or without that strength, she is now a far more dangerous person, and her experience as a weak nobody has also strengthened her resolve and made her a tough person. I'd actually like to see her meet Cadsuane more than anyone else. Caddy will see right away that here's someone who's almost a match.


To be honest I never thought of Siuan as a function of her channeling. Siuan seems diminished to me. She may be devious but she's a lesser woman than many in Salidar including Egwene, Romanda and Lelaine. I'd go as far to say that Leane has become a stronger woman than Siuan. Seriously, no one really respects her, and Egwene often cuts her off. Maybe it is because they defer to strength in the Power so heavily, but I find that even Gareth Bryne finds her more amusing than intimidating.

Personally I think she was smashed so badly by being stilled and stripped of stole and staff that she'll never completely recover.

Siuan has just found a new way to get people to do what she wants. She's already controlling Romanda and Lelaine (hooray, Egwene's pet managed to smash the only remaining Tower-related obstacle - tyranny here we come!). I'm sure that, if she really tried, she could get Egwene to do what she wants, too.
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif Sidious - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5123 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... Shannow - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1130 Views
yeah, but then again ... Velveti - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 932 Views
That's total nonsense... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1175 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... Shannow - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 1051 Views
He raised other issues too Sidious - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 1050 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 1057 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. Shannow - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 920 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 917 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 508 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 523 Views
Re: Hello Skillet, I'm a baking sheet can't we all have some cookies and get along? *NM* HyogaRott - 17/05/2010 05:17:24 PM 462 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 1005 Views
All of those people EARNED their positions by being the best, not a compromise candidate for office! Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:36:36 AM 1132 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... lyringlas - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 964 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:23:07 AM 991 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 06:33:37 AM 962 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. BlackAdder - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 963 Views
Both wonderful characters... Great Lord of Chaos - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 884 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... Shishka - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1090 Views
"They"? fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 993 Views
Good point ... Shishka - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1131 Views
Re: Good point ... fionwe1987 - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 1011 Views
Re: Good point ... DomA - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1173 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer Nargs - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 1003 Views
Re: "They"? DomA - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 1052 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... Cannoli - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 1009 Views
I don't know if I agree with this darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 1028 Views
The thing is ... Shishka - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 960 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier darius_sedai - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 791 Views
I totally unagree... Milla - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1194 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 940 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine Sidious - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 895 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 957 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 981 Views
I don't really agree Sidious - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 925 Views
I see your point and like I said, I think there are certainly other resolutions to the story line darius_sedai - 11/05/2010 06:22:44 PM 908 Views
Re: I don't really agree DomA - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 1010 Views
I hope so, as well. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 956 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif orius - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1147 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 980 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it Cannoli - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 977 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 860 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* Cannoli - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 574 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 518 Views
The Reds aren't petty Sidious - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 842 Views
Are you kidding? Fanatic-Templar - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 970 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it darius_sedai - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 966 Views
There is none. Fanatic-Templar - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 961 Views
Uhhh? fionwe1987 - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 870 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 1005 Views
Re: ... Sidious - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 951 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 941 Views
*sigh* Sidious - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 997 Views
So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 886 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. Sidious - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 924 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. Fanatic-Templar - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 1015 Views
So, Tsutama... fionwe1987 - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 1080 Views
Ugh. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 835 Views
WTF? fionwe1987 - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 900 Views
F-T is right BlackAdder - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 999 Views
On the minority thing... fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 975 Views
That's exactly the problem. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 829 Views
There is no rewriting... fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 830 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 938 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? darius_sedai - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 972 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 797 Views
why so pissy? darius_sedai - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 968 Views
Sorry. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 897 Views
Re: Sorry. Sidious - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 788 Views
Re: Sorry. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 1000 Views
Re: Sorry. Sidious - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 808 Views
Interesting. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 896 Views
Re: Interesting. Sidious - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 915 Views
Re: Interesting. Fanatic-Templar - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 853 Views
LOL Sidious - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 856 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 1047 Views
No worries! I was just caught off guard by your response... sorry for your stress! *NM* darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:04:35 PM 613 Views
There may be one explanation... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 870 Views
That doesn't make sense. Fanatic-Templar - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 1001 Views
it was about more than just male channelers darius_sedai - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 1008 Views
Yes, that's true. Fanatic-Templar - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 1005 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 901 Views
That's also true. Fanatic-Templar - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 892 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue darius_sedai - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 888 Views
Why are they lumped together? Cannoli - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1147 Views
for practical purposes Sidious - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 866 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. The Angry Druid - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 896 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. Watcher - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 1012 Views
No, I don't think so Sidious - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 834 Views
Let's just say we disagree. The Angry Druid - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 955 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 923 Views
Pfft Sidious - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 930 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. BlackAdder - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 778 Views
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