Thus, she fails the intuitively obvious-test
WHAT intuitively obvious test?
Jordan admitted years that was a joke, that he served at that Q&A the smart ass answer one of his physics teachers used to give his students when they didn't get a difficult problem. He admitted he was pulling our leg, and that he was enjoying it!!!
He even has contradicted the "intuitively obvious" joke elsewhere by saying there were some clues but no red flag. A red flag is slang for an obvious clue.... he said there were none!
The fact it's a joke aside, Graendal as a suspect is still perfectly obvious in TFOH. As the culprit (more than by a lucky guess) and in what circumstances no, but as a suspect certainly. It was even intuitively obvious to come up with the very simple theory that one of Forsaken allied with Rahvin was also in the palace, or came to the palace in the aftermath. I know for a fact it's an obvious reasoning to make because I bloody did it the first time I read that scene! So don't come and tell me Slayer is obvious and Graendal isn't! That's a totally ridiculous statement. NO ONE I've seen on any WOT website or newsgroup I've visited has brought up the theory that Slayer killed the BA in Tear or the Grey Men in the WT before WH revealed it! No one! So don't come and tell it's obvious Slayer did it because he killed before in the series.... It wasn't even obvious there was an executioner for the Shadow in the series, that Shadowspawn or a Forsaken didn't perform these deeds!
The closest someone may come to having Slayer as a suspect by intuition (not a pure guess, as your theory) is "hmmm.. maybe the person who eliminated the BA traitors in TDR also came to kill Asmodean". And that'd be a wrong reasonning because when you think this through by closer examinatiom of the text the circumstances of the death clearly indicated it wasn't an execution but a murder of opportunity, whereas in Tear it was an execution. So there's no obvious connection to make between the two events....
OTOH, it's perfectly simple to come up with possible reasons for Graendal and Sammael to have been in the palace and Asmodean stumbling on them by accident (ta'veren twist): they came to meet Rahvin and were very surprised to find the palace in an uproar and al'Thor apparently there - and remained around to find out what happened; they came for spies, they came to try to learn Rand's next move, they came to find out what happened because agents reported Rahvin's death, they came to check if Lanfear was now with Rand and had betrayed them all, they came to see if Rand was weakened enough by the duel they could take him out Etc., Etc. Some of these reasons don't stand the test of the next books and some do, but back in TFOH they were perfectly valid guesses that could come quite close to solving what happened. With LOC and ACOS, you can narrow it down some more, eliminate Demandred as another suspect, and Sammael, then Semirhage. And in those books and TPOD are the clues that the main remaining suspect, Graendal, seems to know something about Asmodean the others don't, and never something shows up that contradicted the notion she may have killed Asmodean. She had the means, she would have motives, and it's perfectly possible to reason out why she may have had the opportunity.
An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds
- 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM
2771 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery....
- 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM
1460 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer...
- 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM
1263 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments
- 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM
1138 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM
710 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM*
- 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM
691 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin
- 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM
1266 Views
Far-fetched, IMO
- 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM
1573 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM
1264 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so!
- 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM
1377 Views
Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM
1225 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash!
- 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM
1245 Views
The point is...
- 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM
1305 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler
- 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM
1355 Views
As is Slayer
- 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM
1233 Views
There is no evidence of this at all
- 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM
1174 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys
- 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM
1163 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say....
- 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM
1256 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't
- 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM
1409 Views
We often see...
- 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM
1259 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious
- 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM
1352 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM
1199 Views
Well...
- 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM
1270 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM
1260 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above
- 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM
1182 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex!
- 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM
1247 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense
- 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM
1208 Views
Re: Well...
- 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM
1375 Views
No...
- 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM
1265 Views
let's try this another way
- 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM
1259 Views
The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM
1180 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is...
- 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM
1327 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal.
- 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM
1407 Views
RJ used the expression...
- 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM
1190 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1299 Views
- 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM
1299 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer
- 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM
1241 Views
Couple of questions
- 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM
1266 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO!
- 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM
1093 Views
Hmmm
- 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM
1227 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves
- 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM
1126 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that.
- 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM
1198 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly
- 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM
1289 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM*
- 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM
622 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM
1243 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too
- 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM
1229 Views
But look...
- 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM
1238 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved
- 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM
1143 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM
1216 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course
- 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM
1239 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM
1264 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM
1146 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM
1210 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH
- 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM
1226 Views
???
- 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM
1179 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM*
- 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM
1215 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT
- 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM
986 Views
Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM
1131 Views
Re: Indeed
- 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM
1118 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM
1150 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM*
- 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM
1130 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO
- 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM
1320 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM*
- 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM
748 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot?
- 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM
1025 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM
1223 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken
- 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM
1456 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM
940 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book
- 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM
1365 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo.....
- 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM
1142 Views
Doesn't make sense
- 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM
1164 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it.....
- 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM
1083 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM
700 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
756 Views
*NM*
- 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM
756 Views
There is a quote that refutes this...
- 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM
1208 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes.
- 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM
1173 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM*
- 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM
702 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever
- 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM
1232 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM*
- 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM
796 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory
- 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM
1156 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer...
- 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM
1187 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that
- 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM
1158 Views
Well, I don't think so.
- 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM
1186 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM
1043 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
1046 Views
- 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM
1046 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM
1103 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books"
- 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM
1079 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM
1095 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM*
- 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM
1056 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM*
- 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM
736 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books
- 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM
1003 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he.
- 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM
1180 Views
That's what I've always thought as well.
- 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM
1099 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised".....
- 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM
1099 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity
- 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM
1121 Views
That is simply false.
- 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM
1190 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only"
- 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM
1262 Views
Of course, it is false
- 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM
1174 Views
Here are the quotes
- 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM
1106 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM
730 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to
- 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM
1006 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out.
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
596 Views
*NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM
596 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM*
- 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM
788 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer.
- 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM
1175 Views
Well...
- 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM
1163 Views
Logic
- 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM
1117 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1122 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there...
- 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM
1122 Views
I'm just being a smartass
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
760 Views
*NM*
- 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM
760 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense.
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1172 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM
1172 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1112 Views
- 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM
1112 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM
1226 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over
- 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM
1171 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful...
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1265 Views
*NM*
- 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM
1265 Views
No they show that she is deliberate!
- 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM
1203 Views
That are just semantics
- 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM
1263 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH?
- 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM
1143 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes...
- 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM
1128 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point?
- 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM
1197 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1238 Views
- 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM
1238 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin?
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1198 Views
- 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM
1198 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it...
- 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM
1273 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled
- 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM
1283 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said.
- 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM
1030 Views
um no it's not
- 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM
1118 Views
It's told after that...
- 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM
1081 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place
- 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM
1230 Views
Yeah...
- 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM
1157 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ...
- 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM
1166 Views
Ah, whatever...
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1084 Views
- 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM
1084 Views
We are on the exact same page
- 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM
1130 Views
