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Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM
Okay I went through the first 7 books looking for any information that might lead us to the killer ... obviously nothing definitive here, but thought it was worthwhile on a dull Saturday morning...

EoTW clues:

Slayer
Isam and Luc’s childhood stories told briefly

Graendal
Hints that the Forsaken are loose but no mention

TGH

Slayer
Shadow Prophesy alluding to Isam and Luc merging into 1 being

Graendal
More hints about the Forsaken being free but nothing specific

TDR

Slayer
No mention

Graendal
No mention

TSR

Slayer
First mention of the name Slayer
We learn from the Wolves that he can enter TAR in the Flesh (by unknown means), and that he kills wolves forever when there
We learn that Lord Luc and Isam are both in the TR and learn that they are one and the same, or at least can infer from the various big hints
We know that the Myrddraal fear being found by Isam
We learn/see that at least Lord Luc is great fighter, he's been killing Myrddraal all over the TR
We learn that Fain thinks Isam is a "problem for another time"

Graendal
First onscreen mention
We learn she takes “trophies”

Misc
We learn Balefire can destroy the Forsaken
We learn that the Forsaken are not all a united front, and that even amongst the BA there are different orders being given

TFoH

Slayer
No Mention, probably off convalescing from his wounds given by Perrin in TSR

Graendal
First on screen appearance
We learn about her Slaves (Power and Beauty and the heavy use of Compulsion)
We learn that she finds it odd that the Forsaken aren’t actively trying to kill each other
We learn she thinks she is above mere humans
Graendal is aggressive enough to challenge Lanfear in front of other Forsaken and would likely use Balefire in such a fight
We learned that she had carved out a power base and would protect it rather than sitting around plotting against Rand
We learn that Asmodean knew she was in Arad Domon
We learn she pokes around in TAR, spying on the other Forsaken
We know she is aware that Asmodean is teaching Rand and that she is part of the plot to kill/control Rand that Lanfear, Sammael and Rhavin are all part of as well

LoC

Slayer
No mention

Graendal
We learn she remains in cahoots with Sammael and is giving him information on the other FS
We learn that she tends to hide things in plain sight
We learn she already knows of Lanfear and Rahvin’s deaths, and assumes Moghedien and Asmodean are also dead at Rands hands
We learn that Sammael did NOT know that Asmodean was dead
We learn that Graendal is willing to go to great lengths (go to Sharra and steal the rulers) to achieve even small goals
We learn that she hates being threatened in anyway
We learn she is frightened of Rand and will go to great lengths to avoid his detection
We learn that she was a master of mindgames and also some sort of Psychiatrist in the AoL

Misc

The DO already also knew of Asmo’s death


PoD
We learn Graendal looted Sammaels rooms in Ilian
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds Etzel - 27/05/2010 12:12:50 PM 2622 Views
I hate to say it, as I love this mystery.... GateKeeper - 27/05/2010 03:01:08 PM 1366 Views
Surely, there can never be enough Asmo threads! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:18:06 PM 736 Views
I have a theory on the killer that doesn't involve Slayer... FanEditor10 - 28/05/2010 03:41:23 AM 1168 Views
It's not really obvious... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:08:27 AM 1105 Views
In addition to Etzel's comments newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:08:45 PM 1019 Views
I'm pretty sure the Myrdraal that killed Caradin's family was a Proto-version of SH *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:56:58 PM 661 Views
Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin *NM* newyorkersedai - 29/05/2010 04:40:15 PM 625 Views
Re: Smacking & ordering Carridin, yes - but no evidence it killed his kin darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 09:16:01 PM 1168 Views
Far-fetched, IMO DomA - 27/05/2010 04:01:05 PM 1461 Views
very well said *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 04:19:10 PM 761 Views
I don't want Slayer to be the killer Etzel - 27/05/2010 04:33:06 PM 1154 Views
The way you twist things, it certainly seems so! fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 05:07:22 PM 1249 Views
Bah, hogwash! Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:17:37 PM 1117 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! DomA - 27/05/2010 08:14:16 PM 1160 Views
The point is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:38:49 AM 1196 Views
Yes, but Fain is a far cry from your average non-channeler darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:01:44 PM 1250 Views
As is Slayer Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:25:07 PM 1101 Views
There is no evidence of this at all darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:32:37 PM 1085 Views
Yeah, the evil guys don't manage to harm the good guys Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:38:57 PM 1056 Views
so far we've seen Slayer kill a sleeping guy and his wife darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:45:14 PM 1078 Views
I disagree. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:50:02 PM 1191 Views
You always twist the quotes to make them say what Jordan didn't intend to say.... DomA - 28/05/2010 02:20:09 PM 1147 Views
I think this is your interpretation Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:14 PM 1091 Views
Yeah right... fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 08:35:35 PM 1181 Views
See my replies above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:40:42 AM 975 Views
Re: Bah, hogwash! Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:28:16 AM 971 Views
See my repy to DomA. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:39:15 AM 942 Views
None of this explains how Slayer had opportunity that others didn't darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:12:48 PM 1298 Views
We often see... Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:33:19 PM 1151 Views
I just keep coming back to Slayer needs wild explanations while Graendal is more obvious darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 05:52:13 PM 1232 Views
Ok, as we said in the other thread, let's RAFO! *NM* Etzel - 27/05/2010 05:57:49 PM 1242 Views
Agreed *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:03:51 PM 687 Views
Indeed Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:39:14 AM 1084 Views
Well... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:19:46 AM 1161 Views
Re: Well... darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:20:15 PM 1148 Views
I adressed the points regarding the Fain-comparsion above Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:35:08 PM 1086 Views
your Slayer theory is ridiculously complex! darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:37:08 PM 1138 Views
It just requires to combine some clues from the first 5 books & some common sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:44:10 PM 1088 Views
common sense? darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:51:25 PM 1092 Views
See my posts above. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:50:56 PM 1108 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:27:40 PM 1251 Views
No... Etzel - 28/05/2010 03:04:41 PM 1170 Views
let's try this another way darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:14:07 PM 1162 Views
The main problem with Graendal is... Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:31:09 PM 1083 Views
Graendal has a pretty significant role in TFoH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 06:54:39 PM 1167 Views
Re: The main problem with Graendal is... DomA - 28/05/2010 09:20:27 PM 1224 Views
my first thought was it was Sammael or Graendal. Come LoC it was clear to me that it was Graendal. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 09:44:38 PM 1285 Views
RJ used the expression... Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:17:08 AM 1068 Views
be careful ... your stretching far enough you might hurt yourself darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:12:29 PM 1171 Views
Re: No... Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:38:49 PM 1045 Views
Re: I don't want Slayer to be the killer DomA - 27/05/2010 07:47:40 PM 1118 Views
Couple of questions scalius - 27/05/2010 09:53:05 PM 1145 Views
Be'lal managed to get out NO! darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:08:33 PM 996 Views
Hmmm scalius - 27/05/2010 10:27:55 PM 1119 Views
Re: Hmmm RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:34:30 PM 1009 Views
I don't think you can actually cut BF weaves darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 10:45:34 PM 1034 Views
Hmmm I wonder about that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 10:58:46 PM 1089 Views
I think it would be impossible for someone to react that quickly darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:13:01 PM 1182 Views
We've seen it done. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/05/2010 06:32:08 PM 1034 Views
Not the same thing darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:00:13 PM 1011 Views
Re: Couple of questions DomA - 28/05/2010 03:29:29 PM 1178 Views
As said... Etzel - 28/05/2010 08:36:28 AM 1125 Views
Of course you do. Trying to deny it is just silly. Everyone knows your bias. *NM* Tom - 27/05/2010 08:43:18 PM 575 Views
No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Etzel - 27/05/2010 09:08:48 PM 1138 Views
Re: No, seriously, if actually Graendal did it, it's ok to me, too Sidious - 28/05/2010 08:25:46 AM 1122 Views
But look... Etzel - 28/05/2010 09:01:12 AM 1142 Views
if there are clues in TFoH I find it hard to believe that Slayer is involved darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:29:40 PM 1042 Views
The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:32:13 PM 1116 Views
Re: The scene of Asmo's murder contains clues, of course darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:35:22 PM 1115 Views
RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 12:40:23 PM 1170 Views
Re: RJ said the main clues are in the books before LoC. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 12:52:30 PM 1032 Views
Yeah, I know. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:51:32 PM 1101 Views
Yet Slayer is no where to be seen between his vanishing after TSR and the start of WH darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:09:44 PM 1118 Views
??? Sidious - 28/05/2010 02:19:17 PM 1079 Views
Of course RJ implied that. You should read his quotes about Asmo! *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 02:52:32 PM 1102 Views
Here is what RJ said EDIT darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 03:29:19 PM 875 Views
Indeed Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:18:35 PM 1037 Views
Re: Indeed darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 05:26:38 PM 1007 Views
But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:33:02 PM 1054 Views
Re: But he was already introduced to us before the murder, and that is all that matters. *NM* darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 07:05:27 PM 1027 Views
LOL!! Sidious - 28/05/2010 03:29:35 PM 845 Views
Too much? Etzel - 28/05/2010 05:16:44 PM 1100 Views
Re: Far-fetched, IMO saidarisnowtainted - 02/06/2010 07:34:58 PM 1222 Views
Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:13:04 PM 694 Views
Re: Sent by whom? And how on earth would he be expected to interrupt a Forsaken plot? saidarisnowtainted - 19/06/2010 12:59:54 AM 929 Views
Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken darius_sedai - 19/06/2010 03:30:37 AM 1131 Views
Re: Slayer takes orders from the Forsaken saidarisnowtainted - 24/06/2010 09:03:18 AM 1333 Views
The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book darius_sedai - 26/06/2010 02:32:26 PM 839 Views
Re: The orders to not kill Rand didn't happen until the next book saidarisnowtainted - 01/07/2010 10:13:53 PM 1264 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:19:18 PM 1054 Views
Re: An analysis of Asmodean's last seconds DomA - 27/05/2010 09:16:21 PM 1064 Views
Lanfear killed Asmo..... trzaska2000 - 28/05/2010 05:05:55 AM 1027 Views
Doesn't make sense Etzel - 28/05/2010 11:09:14 AM 1067 Views
Sorry, Lanfear did it..... trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:47:44 AM 1001 Views
Considering that RJ didn't even necessarily want to reveal it, it was pretty random, yeah. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:25:54 AM 653 Views
Death is Moridin "when death took him"; need I say more *NM* Knightscape - 28/05/2010 10:07:14 AM 694 Views
There is a quote that refutes this... Etzel - 28/05/2010 10:22:12 AM 1111 Views
He could have recognized Moridan.....due to the True Power in his eyes. trzaska2000 - 29/05/2010 03:49:49 AM 1052 Views
No other Forsaken immediately recognizes Moridin as Ishy because of the saa. *NM* Etzel - 29/05/2010 08:26:44 AM 658 Views
RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 08:55:01 PM 1134 Views
Re: RJ failed, Etzel's analysis is sharp, and I'm gonna abandon the Asmo question forever *NM* newyorkersedai - 28/05/2010 09:24:41 PM 748 Views
I think I found an RJ quote that kills the Slayer theory darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 01:57:20 PM 1015 Views
If Slayer is actually the killer... Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:20:32 PM 1087 Views
Please, RJ would do as he always had and immediately RAFOd a question like that darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:26:10 PM 1058 Views
Well, I don't think so. Etzel - 29/05/2010 02:43:28 PM 1076 Views
yet he never gave an answer like this one darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 02:57:35 PM 1148 Views
Again... Etzel - 29/05/2010 03:09:06 PM 1144 Views
Taking things NO darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 03:12:24 PM 1115 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:44:05 AM 952 Views
If Slayer never met Asmo in the books he could not have killed him darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 12:46:40 PM 953 Views
But Slayer could have met Asmo, when he was killed.. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 01:06:01 PM 1009 Views
Directly contradicts what RJ said "they did not meet in the books" darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:51:50 PM 962 Views
Not "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 06/06/2010 06:03:34 PM 1007 Views
Re: Not "before" the murder. *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 10:25:16 PM 965 Views
He answers the question, if they met "before" the murder. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 07:18:50 AM 684 Views
not if it didn't happen in the books darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:08:34 PM 896 Views
I'm relieved then... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:13:58 PM 901 Views
it's nearly as simplistic as knowing Graendal did it darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:48:42 PM 1038 Views
Compilation of the clues I could find on Slayer and Graendal darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 04:26:58 PM 1155 Views
I think Asmo's killer was as surprised as he. TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:26:03 PM 1079 Views
That's what I've always thought as well. Seriana Sedai - 29/05/2010 10:06:56 PM 1004 Views
That's always been my theory too Sidious - 29/05/2010 10:18:30 PM 1107 Views
*nods* darius_sedai - 29/05/2010 11:23:18 PM 1125 Views
Re: That's always been my theory too Seriana Sedai - 30/05/2010 07:35:50 AM 1035 Views
You know, there's no direct proof suggesting that Asmo's killer was "surprised"..... trzaska2000 - 01/06/2010 04:04:56 AM 990 Views
That's why I said "I think" and offered my opinion. TaskmasterJack - 01/06/2010 09:46:09 PM 1038 Views
except the Author said it was a murder of opportunity darius_sedai - 01/06/2010 11:13:14 PM 1023 Views
That is simply false. Etzel - 02/06/2010 10:00:27 AM 1082 Views
RJ stated it was a murder of opportunity ... I never said "only" darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 11:49:23 AM 1132 Views
Of course, it is false Etzel - 02/06/2010 12:13:11 PM 1053 Views
Here are the quotes darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 12:39:29 PM 982 Views
As said, those quotes simply don't support that the murder was basically just an unplanned accident. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:14:29 PM 682 Views
I disagree. It's pretty much black and white that the opportunity/timing is the key factor to darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:39:03 PM 916 Views
Actually I like it because it fits Slayer better than Graendal, as pointed out. *NM* Etzel - 02/06/2010 02:51:24 PM 540 Views
that makes no sense at all *NM* darius_sedai - 02/06/2010 02:53:28 PM 733 Views
RJ pretty much said it wasn't Slayer. FanEditor10 - 06/06/2010 05:47:13 AM 1081 Views
Well... Etzel - 06/06/2010 10:46:13 AM 1078 Views
Logic darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 02:53:27 PM 1039 Views
You're falling into Etzelian logic there... DomA - 06/06/2010 03:25:30 PM 1030 Views
I'm just being a smartass *NM* darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 03:36:00 PM 705 Views
It's good that Etzel sticks to his guns Sidious - 06/06/2010 04:42:01 PM 1141 Views
OMG, Taim and Mesaana were getting it on in the pantry darius_sedai - 06/06/2010 09:49:57 PM 999 Views
That reminds me... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:46:58 AM 1027 Views
That's not anyone's logic, this argument is simply utter nonsense. *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:08:05 PM 1072 Views
just like thinking Slayer was the killer is darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:09:34 PM 1019 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 12:21:31 PM 1109 Views
thinking the top assassin killed someone when it's been stated over and over darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 12:56:48 PM 1064 Views
Those quotes pretty much show that Graendal is careful... *NM* Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:03:26 PM 1045 Views
No they show that she is deliberate! darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 01:12:29 PM 1096 Views
That are just semantics Etzel - 07/06/2010 01:36:12 PM 1169 Views
and you think it's obvious that Slayer was the premier Shadow assassin prior to WH? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:06:47 PM 1049 Views
As I explained you several times, I can see why RJ thought it is obvious, yes... Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:17:01 PM 1016 Views
Why wouldn't Graendal head to Caemlyn at that point? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 02:36:24 PM 1094 Views
And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? Etzel - 07/06/2010 02:54:33 PM 1143 Views
Re: And where was she then, when Rand attacked Rahvin? darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:01:14 PM 1101 Views
You should re-read the scene where Moghedien tells Nynaeve about it... Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:12:55 PM 1108 Views
That's a different thing than Moghedien saying the plan was canceled darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 03:15:32 PM 1180 Views
That is essentially what Moghedien said. Etzel - 07/06/2010 03:33:35 PM 932 Views
um no it's not darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:17:04 PM 1020 Views
It's told after that... Etzel - 07/06/2010 04:46:31 PM 983 Views
No it doesn't. It tells us that Rahvin, just like all the others had a side plan in place darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 04:55:43 PM 1136 Views
Yeah... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:17:59 PM 1068 Views
Funny I feel the same way you do ... darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:25:48 PM 1058 Views
Ah, whatever... Etzel - 07/06/2010 05:35:22 PM 985 Views
We are on the exact same page darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 05:42:48 PM 1030 Views
Re: We are on the exact same page Sidious - 07/06/2010 05:52:37 PM 1107 Views
LMAO darius_sedai - 07/06/2010 06:07:16 PM 1489 Views
I promised Etzel long ago... Fanatic-Templar - 19/06/2010 04:49:11 AM 1043 Views
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