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If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion? beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM
1. Graendal gets wind of the fact that Rand is coming to Arad Doman. She starts to make contingency plans - the same plans that she advised Sammael to make for if ever Rand appeared on her doorstep.


Fine... although until now, this has generally meant "Channeling-detecting wards" and the like.

2. When Aran'gar arrives at her palace, she takes Delana and teaches her Compulsion. Graendal says she will not risk strength and skill, but Delana has neither, and will only know one advanced weave after some training. Graendal needs Delana for this purpose and starts setting up a proxy, well aware that she is going to throw Delana in front of the first sign of the Dragon Reborn.


"Needs Delana for this purpose." What purpose? This strstegy ONLY works if Graendal knew about Rand's plans. In any other situation, having Delana do something so sensitive and complex (subtle Compulsion is very difficult) would be countrproductive.


3. Rand sends in his messenger and Graendal figures out what is happening. She gets Delana to compel the man, while she and Aran'gar make plans.


Again, highly unlikely. Rand gave no clue. Graendal might have thought, "Hm, something weird is going on" or "Damn, the Dragon obviously knows where I am," but there was nothing to suggest "In 15 minutes I am about to be consumed in a stream of balefire the width of an aircraft carrier"


4. Aran'gar senses saidin, and she and Graendal Travel. They deliberately leave Delana behind to die. Graendal doesn't know that Rand will use balefire, but Aran'gar senses so much saidin that Graendal hopes that Rand will take any evidence of saidar as evidence that she was in the palace when he destroyed it by whatever means.


By the time Aran'gar would have sensed saidin, the balefire would have already consumed them. Plus, Rand KNOWS about Travelling- if he didn't use balefire, lack of a body is much more likely to mean "escaped" than "dead."


5. The Compulsion is unravelled, but Graendal and Aran'gar are safe. The reason for Delana tagging along with Aran'gar is revealed, as she is sacrificed to perform a masterful ruse.


Sorry, it just doesn't hold up. The ONLY way this would be a brilliant ruse is if Graendal knew Rand would use balefire ahead of time, and you just said that she didn't.




Listen, guys... I liked Graendal, too. But it's over. She's gone. I'm sorry.
I amuse myself.
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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Sidious - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 2162 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... Etzel - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 1104 Views
Too convulted...... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 1342 Views
The logic is rather... Etzel - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 1010 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? Artsapat - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 1181 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 1090 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 1147 Views
That is wrong Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 989 Views
Re: That is wrong Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 1059 Views
It's not at all... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 968 Views
Plus... Etzel - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 898 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. Logain - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 970 Views
exactly darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 978 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? Lohikaarme - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 1035 Views
sorry but no dacole - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 1113 Views
Exactly Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 955 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 527 Views
Actually... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 1006 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 1153 Views
It makes perfect sense. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 1017 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM 1036 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 667 Views
Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS) krassos - 13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM 937 Views
If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion? beetnemesis - 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM 1219 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 1111 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 1082 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Sidious - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 1003 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Underwood - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 1059 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 626 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* Underwood - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 528 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 1066 Views
Huh Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 1050 Views
Why did the lair explode? Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 1009 Views
*NM* Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 685 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. Mik - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 1188 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 895 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 988 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1166 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 934 Views
Provide a quote. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 1062 Views
read the chapter darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 905 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 1029 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 1119 Views
Was that what I asked for? Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 867 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 918 Views
Oh if that's what you want darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 1033 Views
Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM 949 Views
Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM 939 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 917 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 899 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 993 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 1036 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 1038 Views
Which ones? Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 911 Views
Re: Which ones? Sidious - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 1010 Views
Well. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 895 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 977 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 1054 Views
Thanks for the quote. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 1124 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 916 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion BlackAdder - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 924 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 1058 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 832 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 1077 Views
No. Don't think so. Tom - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 909 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. Seriana Sedai - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 1061 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 977 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 1061 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 993 Views
Yip Sidious - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 963 Views
Lame. eucatastrophe - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 901 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 862 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* Yunalesca - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 578 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 904 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 997 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 1102 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* Lord Haart - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 358 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 1296 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Underwood - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 1011 Views
Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die? Gher - 16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM 917 Views
Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM* Gher - 16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM 481 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? scooter - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 889 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 867 Views
Because he was right, that's why. Terez - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 887 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 852 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible Terez - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 1111 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 991 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* scooter - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 992 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 937 Views
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