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While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. Mik Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM
And what's the use in teaching him to act like you if you expect the lair to blow up? Why do you expect the lair to blow up? Why don't they intend to arrest you? Why is the chief of police coming in person? Who are they shooting at if they intend to just blow up the place anyway?

Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.

Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.

Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.

In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.


You forget one very important detail. Namely, that Rand told Ramshalan enough about his plans for Graendal to figure out she's in danger. In other words; Graendal changed her plans the moment she compelled poor stupid Rammy and learned why Rand send him.

I'm in the "Granny is toast" camp. Just so you know.
But your comparison -although funny and nice- missed one important detail that changes it all.

Ramshalan knew too much.
Rand was the real fool, by telling his fool pawn too much.
Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'

Death dances in my footsteps....
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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 1917 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 882 Views
Too convulted...... - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 997 Views
The logic is rather... - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 773 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 947 Views
Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 863 Views
Re: Indeed... - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 898 Views
That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 734 Views
Re: That is wrong - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 821 Views
It's not at all... - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 736 Views
Plus... - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 670 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 738 Views
exactly - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 740 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 804 Views
sorry but no - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 862 Views
Exactly - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 751 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 425 Views
Actually... - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 777 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 923 Views
It makes perfect sense. - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 785 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 551 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 847 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 860 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 761 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 824 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 516 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 421 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 828 Views
Huh - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 798 Views
Why did the lair explode? - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 744 Views
*NM* - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 578 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 930 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 650 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 741 Views
... - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 938 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 701 Views
Provide a quote. - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 839 Views
read the chapter - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 662 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 783 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 859 Views
Was that what I asked for? - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 628 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 637 Views
Oh if that's what you want - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 800 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 663 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 643 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 747 Views
Nonsense. - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 771 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 800 Views
Which ones? - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 684 Views
Re: Which ones? - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 780 Views
Well. - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 660 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 754 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 823 Views
Thanks for the quote. - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 844 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 672 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 690 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 794 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 610 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 851 Views
No. Don't think so. - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 669 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 834 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 750 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 808 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 719 Views
Yip - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 727 Views
Lame. - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 677 Views
Not really - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 622 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 465 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 677 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 765 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 865 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 251 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 945 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 776 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 680 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 648 Views
Because he was right, that's why. - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 659 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 591 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 880 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 755 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 756 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 701 Views

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