While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail.
Mik Send a noteboard - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM
And what's the use in teaching him to act like you if you expect the lair to blow up? Why do you expect the lair to blow up? Why don't they intend to arrest you? Why is the chief of police coming in person? Who are they shooting at if they intend to just blow up the place anyway?
Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.
Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.
Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.
In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.
Anyway, here's a few things people seem to ignore.
Graendal didn't flee when someone warped in - she waited until someone came to her door, met her, got Compelled and sent back out. And then, people suggest, she fled. Why? Fleeing from Rand as soon as she felt him Travel to her location would be quite credible, this is what she said she would do multiple times. Fleeing after the visit is downright absurd. What if Rand hadn't sent Ramshalan first? Again, this plan that people like to hypothesise makes no sense - it requires her to leave herself open to far simpler attacks in order to counter the one, single, unexpected attack for no reason beyond fulfilling the desires of people who start off with the conclusion that she could have escaped.
Now, someone might say she had already fled when Ramshalan arrived and the pawn channeler did everything of her own accord. Of course, this makes little sense either. Barring that we have seen little from Graendal that indicates she would be willing to teach her talents to some insignificant sacrificial pawn, barring that we have no indication that such a sacrificial pawn even exists, barring that we have no reason to believe Aran'gar and Delana were ever at Graendal's place, and barring that even if they did, Graendal would still need to have someone else already in place to execute that plan before they came anyway - because if this was such a well-planned counter, then surely she had it prepared the moment Rand hinted at coming to Arad Doman, not when Aran'gar arrived - barring all that, it still doesn't make sense because said sacrificial pawn wouldn't know what orders to Compel into the target if Graendal wasn't there to tell her. And Graendal wouldn't know what orders to give unless she saw the visitor. Which brings us back to the previous point, Graendal had to be there when Ramshalan arrived, therefore, her fleeing makes no sense, because she would have fled after the expected threat came.
In order to avoid this, the sacrificial channeling pawn would have to not only be entrusted by Graendal with her Compulsion knowledge, but also imparted a significant array of her plans and schemes, so that the pawn could Compel according to her own judgment based on who the intruder was and what Graendal's plans entailed. It would also required Graendal to trust the sacrificial pawn to have correct judgment regarding her actions vis à vis the intruder. Anyone who actually thinks this sounds like something a Forsaken would do understand less than nothing about the Forsaken.
You forget one very important detail. Namely, that Rand told Ramshalan enough about his plans for Graendal to figure out she's in danger. In other words; Graendal changed her plans the moment she compelled poor stupid Rammy and learned why Rand send him.
I'm in the "Granny is toast" camp. Just so you know.
But your comparison -although funny and nice- missed one important detail that changes it all.
Ramshalan knew too much.
Rand was the real fool, by telling his fool pawn too much.
Mik ~ Ishamaels halfmad 'brother'
Death dances in my footsteps....
Death dances in my footsteps....
What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM
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Too convulted to make any sense...
13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM
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What is the reason Delana is with Graendal?
13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM
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Indeed...
13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM
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Re: Indeed...
13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM
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That is wrong
13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM
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Re: That is wrong
13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM
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Plus...
13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM
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sorry but no
13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM
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Exactly
13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM
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It makes perfect sense.
13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM
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I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text
13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM
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This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM*
13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM
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Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS)
13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM
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If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion?
13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM
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Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand.
13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM
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I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted.
13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM
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Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them
13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM
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Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them
13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM
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What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple.
13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM
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Huh
14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM
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Why did the lair explode?
14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM
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While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail.
14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM
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What did Rand tell Ramshalan...
14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM
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Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan...
14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM
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...
14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM
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he doesn't have to read Rands mind
14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM
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Provide a quote.
15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM
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read the chapter
10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM
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Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't.
10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM
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sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate
11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM
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Oh if that's what you want
11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM
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Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress.
11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM
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Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress.
11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM
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why does it have to be a well thought out plan?
14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM
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She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion.
14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM
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No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate
14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM
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Nonsense.
14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM
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yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance
14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM
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Which ones?
15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM
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Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted.
14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM
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She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion
13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM
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we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves
14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM
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I so desperately want you to be right.
14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM
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Graendal being alive would make more of a statement...
14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM
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Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM*
13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM
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Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die?
16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM
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Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM*
16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM
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Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory?
10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM
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Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers*
10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM
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Because he was right, that's why.
11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM
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Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers*
11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM
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