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sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM
Again,

I suggest you reread that passage, what Rand says is that Graendal is so much smarter than him and that he has no way of matching her, and that he needs to get some allies who are more clever than her (to say nothing of that absurd idea about allying with Graendal, which she surely wouldn't buy after Sammael tried that trick), there is nothing that indicates that Rand is going to balefire her palace in the next few minutes (or days, or even weeks), everything in that conversation suggests Rand is stumped and is unable to find an answer to dealing with Graendal.


Incidentally, in order for Graendal to learn this, she would have to Compel Ramshalan. Given that you claim that she only thought of the channeling pawn scheme after getting information from Ramshalan, why would she have someone else Compel him in the first place? Again, it is impossible.

Either Graendal had someone else Compel Ramshalan from the moment he arrived, which would make anything she learned from him irrelevant, or she did Compel him, and your entire argument is moot.


All she had to do was hold a compulsion on him while interrogating him then release it and have someone else do the "bigger" job if she so chose. This is not a difficult concept she did much the same to Moghedien and Cyndane in WH.


Note what she did when threatened in POD... seems pretty standard

POD
New Alliances

She had spun the nets strong, for anger’s sake, nearly strong enough to do harm, and the women stood staring at her adoringly, eyes wide and mouths hanging open in adulation, intoxicated with worship. They were hers to command, now. If she told them to cut their own throats, they would. Suddenly Graendal realized that Moghedien was no longer embracing the Source. This much Compulsion might have shocked her into letting go. The servants by the door had not moved, of course.

"Now," she said a touch breathlessly, "you will answer my questions." She had a number, including who was this Moridin fellow, if there was such a man, and where had Cyndane come from, but one piqued her more than the rest. "What did you hope to gain by this, Moghedien? I may decide to knot those webs on you. You can pay for your game by serving me."

note that there is no permanent damage until she knots the webs, easy to see that she would have done something similar to Ramshalan and when she realized what was up had someone else finish the job while she packed up and ran.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/08/2010 at 03:43:00 AM
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What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Sidious - 13/07/2010 09:00:05 AM 2255 Views
Too convulted to make any sense... Etzel - 13/07/2010 09:22:26 AM 1194 Views
Too convulted...... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:26:26 PM 1443 Views
The logic is rather... Etzel - 15/07/2010 05:09:30 PM 1098 Views
What is the reason Delana is with Graendal? Artsapat - 13/07/2010 09:31:36 AM 1268 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:06:32 AM 1176 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:10:43 AM 1247 Views
That is wrong Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:19:32 AM 1088 Views
Re: That is wrong Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:29:16 AM 1175 Views
It's not at all... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:35:49 AM 1055 Views
Plus... Etzel - 13/07/2010 12:18:12 PM 994 Views
I agree with part and disagree with part. Logain - 14/07/2010 06:39:36 PM 1062 Views
exactly darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 06:43:14 PM 1064 Views
Does the Compulsion fit Graendal? Lohikaarme - 13/07/2010 03:40:36 PM 1126 Views
sorry but no dacole - 13/07/2010 09:49:13 AM 1200 Views
Exactly Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:14:06 AM 1041 Views
Yeah dacole provided powerful evidence *NM* Sidious - 13/07/2010 10:25:13 AM 572 Views
Actually... Etzel - 13/07/2010 10:30:24 AM 1086 Views
Or, as with Moghedien. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:35:44 PM 1237 Views
It makes perfect sense. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 02:33:09 PM 1100 Views
I won't be 100% sure she's dead until we get a solid "she's toast" from either the text darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:21:18 PM 1131 Views
This is actually the first thing that I thought of in that scene *NM* darius_sedai - 13/07/2010 04:08:48 PM 711 Views
Until I have absolute proof to the contrary.(Confirmation by Harriot or BS) krassos - 13/07/2010 04:20:49 PM 1029 Views
If Graendal didn't know Rand would use balefire, why would she have Delana do the Compulsion? beetnemesis - 13/07/2010 04:57:10 PM 1323 Views
Yes, Graendal completely outsmarted Rand. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 05:56:30 PM 1195 Views
I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/07/2010 06:33:44 PM 1178 Views
Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Sidious - 13/07/2010 08:41:54 PM 1093 Views
Re: Indeed... imagine how a truly complex plan would confound them Underwood - 13/07/2010 09:09:09 PM 1152 Views
You draw too much attention to yourself, Mr Underwood *NM* Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:13:42 AM 671 Views
Ha, nice! *NM* Underwood - 14/07/2010 04:05:00 PM 562 Views
What are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, it's absurdly simple. Fanatic-Templar - 13/07/2010 09:27:22 PM 1154 Views
Huh Sidious - 14/07/2010 05:22:51 AM 1141 Views
Why did the lair explode? Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 06:17:32 AM 1099 Views
*NM* Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 01:58:17 PM 734 Views
While I generally agree with you...you missed an important detail. Mik - 14/07/2010 02:06:31 PM 1281 Views
What did Rand tell Ramshalan... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:29:04 PM 991 Views
Re: What did Rand tell Ramshalan... darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:52:11 PM 1083 Views
... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:22:21 PM 1253 Views
he doesn't have to read Rands mind darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:41:59 PM 1018 Views
Provide a quote. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:10:06 AM 1147 Views
read the chapter darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:22:02 PM 980 Views
Right, that's why I asked. Because I know you can't. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:00:14 PM 1134 Views
sigh ... always so aggressive ... why you gotta hate darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 03:23:31 AM 1209 Views
Was that what I asked for? Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 04:05:41 AM 969 Views
sorry misunderstood what you were looking for darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:50:17 PM 999 Views
Oh if that's what you want darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 04:45:19 PM 1113 Views
Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. Fanatic-Templar - 11/08/2010 06:57:39 PM 1038 Views
Re: Yes, he pretty much says out loud that he can't just wipe out her fortress. darius_sedai - 11/08/2010 09:20:10 PM 1026 Views
why does it have to be a well thought out plan? darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:14:17 PM 1011 Views
She would have to teach her pawn Compulsion. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 04:30:12 PM 1024 Views
No she'd only have to show Delana a weave to duplicate darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:48:24 PM 1072 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 09:30:01 PM 1121 Views
yet Sorilea, can duplicate Cadsuane's weaves after one quick glance darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 09:52:01 PM 1128 Views
Which ones? Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 04:14:23 AM 1011 Views
Re: Which ones? Sidious - 15/07/2010 05:25:28 AM 1106 Views
Well. Fanatic-Templar - 15/07/2010 06:53:29 AM 987 Views
Actually I think it's one of those things that make AS so stupid darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:36:43 PM 1075 Views
the Sorilea moment is when they first meet Semirhage darius_sedai - 10/08/2010 09:32:26 PM 1161 Views
Thanks for the quote. Fanatic-Templar - 10/08/2010 10:02:36 PM 1214 Views
Re: I just think it's funny that people make fun of such a basic plan as convoluted. saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:40:11 PM 1013 Views
She's so smart, she knows Rand will bring along Nynaeve to check Delana's Compulsion BlackAdder - 13/07/2010 08:32:19 PM 1006 Views
we've seen any number of times that a Channeler can make an exact copy of weaves darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:10:41 PM 1133 Views
Ramshalan didn't know the plan as you claim Skeeve the Great - 14/07/2010 04:16:29 PM 926 Views
he knew enough to alert Graendal to the danger darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:50:26 PM 1175 Views
No. Don't think so. Tom - 13/07/2010 08:35:34 PM 996 Views
I so desperately want you to be right. Seriana Sedai - 14/07/2010 06:30:16 AM 1163 Views
Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2010 06:53:48 AM 1080 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Fanatic-Templar - 14/07/2010 07:10:49 AM 1147 Views
Re: Graendal being alive would make more of a statement... Seriana Sedai - 15/07/2010 10:50:05 PM 1084 Views
Yip Sidious - 14/07/2010 04:33:03 PM 1051 Views
Lame. eucatastrophe - 14/07/2010 10:44:47 AM 987 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 14/07/2010 04:15:38 PM 949 Views
she's dead, get over it *NM* Yunalesca - 14/07/2010 01:12:15 PM 620 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 14/07/2010 05:44:38 PM 992 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 14/07/2010 07:21:29 PM 1086 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? saidarisnowtainted - 10/08/2010 09:12:17 PM 1183 Views
Sounds about right. Wonder if he intends to try and get Callandor? *NM* Lord Haart - 13/08/2010 07:41:47 AM 403 Views
*shrug* Seems a bit complex to me... Jeordam - 14/07/2010 07:17:49 PM 1391 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? Underwood - 15/07/2010 04:38:09 PM 1098 Views
Honestly, if she's still alive, how is she going to die? Gher - 16/07/2010 05:49:06 AM 1011 Views
Ahh, just remembered that some people think some Forsaken will survive Tarmon Gai'don. Still... *NM* Gher - 16/07/2010 05:51:41 AM 523 Views
Re: What about this little 'Graendal survived' theory? scooter - 10/11/2010 04:09:41 AM 985 Views
Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 10/11/2010 04:41:11 AM 958 Views
Because he was right, that's why. Terez - 11/11/2010 03:39:39 AM 960 Views
Not by my reckoning. *Still contains ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:22:59 AM 940 Views
No one ever gets every detail right - it's impossible Terez - 11/11/2010 06:06:26 AM 1204 Views
Yes, but I don't think this was a detail. *Still ToM spoilers.* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 06:31:40 AM 1102 Views
Re: Why? *Towers of Midnight spoilers* scooter - 11/11/2010 04:12:38 AM 1088 Views
Please try to maintain some decorum. *Also ToM spoilers* Fanatic-Templar - 11/11/2010 04:45:08 AM 1025 Views
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