You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
Shannow Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
Since it fits VERY well with the evidence that Lanfear is approximately double Elayne and Aviendha's strength
Which evidence is this, exactly?The evidence can best be pieced together as an overall picture, like a puzzle, that is reconstructed from a multitude of bits and pieces spread across the books.
The logic loosely goes something like this:
The weakest Aes Sedai - Dagian - is approximately one third the strength of the strongest Third Age Aes Sedai - Moiraine, Lelaine, Romanda, Siuan and Elaida.
So if you make Dagian a 10 (to use a round figure), then Moiraine would be a 30.
Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined. There are two contradictory quotes on Amys strength, but the most realistic one puts her about 1 level below Moiraine, but still stronger than most modern Aes Sedai.
Melaine is weaker than Amys, but still above average for an Aes Sedai.
So, a strength of 50-55 would be accurate for Egwene in this context.
Egwene herself makes it clear that there is a big gulf between herself and Moghedien. She says she stands no chance against Moghedien. That's from her own mouth.
Moghedien is the weakest of the Forsaken, and Nynaeve - still FAR from her maximum potential was already able to equal her in Book 4. Nynaeve easily still had 25-30% of her strength still to GROW at the time that she equaled Moghedien. I don't think anyone can really dispute that. Especially since even as late as Book 8, Nynaeve said she STILL had not reached her full potential strength. This was MUCH later than when she matched Moghedien in Book 4.
So, if Egwene is sitting at around 50, then Moghedien has to be so much stronger than her that there can be no hope of Egwene standing a chance against her. That means Moghedien has to be at around 65 at the weakest.
If Nynaeve is 25% stronger than that - or even just 20% stronger than that, it would take her well into the 80's on this scale.
At the same time, we know that Alivia is CONSIDERABLY stronger than Nynaeve. We also know that Graendal is stronger than Nynaeve, that Cyndane is stronger than Graendal, and that Lanfear is stronger than Cyndane.
So there has to be enough room above Nynaeve to adequately incorporate these strength levels as well.
In a nutshell, this is the "established evidence" that I was referring to, which fits nicely with Elayne (at 50) needing to almost double her strength to get to the level of a powerful female Forsaken (at 90).
If she only added 50% to it, she would be at roughly Mesaana's level (75). If she almost doubled it, she would be at around Cyndane's level (90).
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM
3551 Views
Yes.
- 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM
1888 Views
No.
- 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM
1700 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me
- 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM
1602 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease.
- 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM
1828 Views
Three things:
- 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM
1656 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books...
- 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM
1636 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work.
- 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM
1667 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal...
- 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM
1542 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue?
- 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM
1678 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM*
- 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM
1002 Views
not really
- 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM
1648 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong
- 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM
1565 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM*
- 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM
976 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power
- 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM
1615 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though
- 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM
1529 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity
- 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM
1652 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex
- 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM
1452 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV
- 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM
1559 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths
- 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM
1422 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength...
- 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM
1631 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength
- 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM
1605 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal...
- 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM
1411 Views
where is that quote my friend?
- 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM
1470 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm
- 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM
1413 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne
- 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM
1521 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means...
- 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM
1527 Views
Don't be absurd...
- 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM
1523 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian
- 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
1606 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..."
- 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM
1630 Views
And yet...
- 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM
1520 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle...
- 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM
1758 Views
Here are te quotes...
- 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM
1554 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana?
- 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM
1594 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine!
- 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM
1374 Views
Oh nonsense
- 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM
1473 Views
But that's his point.
- 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM
1459 Views
its a useless point
- 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM
1554 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
1442 Views
Yes, utterly useless...
- 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM
1517 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books...
- 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM
1450 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
- 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM
1453 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true
- 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM
1532 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal.
- 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM
1420 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM
1442 Views
Re:
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
1497 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there...
- 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM
1497 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
- 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM
1377 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding.
- 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM
1505 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being
- 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM
1320 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years
- 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM
1618 Views
Re: Yes.
- 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM
1547 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
- 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM
1676 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak
- 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM
1577 Views
Nope...
- 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM
1306 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
- 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
1480 Views
- 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM
1480 Views
Nope...
- 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM
1478 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM
1529 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM
1479 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced
- 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM
1486 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
- 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM
1306 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane
- 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM
1539 Views
Thanks for the quote
- 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM
1602 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin
- 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
1449 Views
- 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM
1449 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW
- 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM
1490 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW
- 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM
1465 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say
- 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
1707 Views
- 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM
1707 Views
Mesaana
- 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM
1395 Views
agreed
- 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM
1416 Views
Re: agreed
- 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM
1296 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
- 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM
1418 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother
- 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM
1571 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap...
- 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM
1558 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels.
- 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM
1456 Views
"clear evidence"
- 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM
1508 Views
Laughable interpretation...
- 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
1487 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
- 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM
1435 Views
couple of thoughts here
- 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM
1493 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here
- 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM
1411 Views
that's what I said! EDIT
- 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM
1337 Views
Well...
- 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM
1493 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield
- 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM
1354 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well
- 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM
1384 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
- 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM
1427 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells
- 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM
1523 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like?
- 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM
1499 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT
- 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM
1452 Views
Dude...
- 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM
1413 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower!
- 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM
1528 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question...
- 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM
1481 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot
- 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM
1399 Views
She knows but she doesn't know?
- 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM
1499 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability
- 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM
1422 Views
And she doesn't know any details...
- 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM
1427 Views
this conversation is so pointless
- 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM
1325 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
- 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM
1327 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary.
- 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM
1347 Views
Of course its obvious now!
- 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM
1526 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her
- 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM
1362 Views
Shielding
- 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM
2876 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
- 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM
1482 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO
- 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM
1612 Views
There is, actually...
- 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM
1368 Views
Meh
- 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM
1494 Views
Well...
- 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM
1488 Views
Re: Well...
- 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM
1479 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength
- 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM
1377 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength...
- 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM
1578 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed
- 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM
1509 Views
astounding "evidence"
- 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM
1521 Views
Re: astounding "evidence"
- 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM
1583 Views
thanks
- 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM
1675 Views
Re: thanks
- 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM
1398 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part
- 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM
1395 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part
- 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM
1501 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
- 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM
1475 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken
- 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM
1524 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM
1502 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM
1565 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM
1517 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen
- 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM
1553 Views
I don't get the logic here...
- 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM
1521 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve
- 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM
1443 Views
And...?
- 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM
1462 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies.
- 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM
1388 Views
That was my interpretation too
- 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM
1428 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM
1557 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline
- 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM
1432 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more
- 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM
1430 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM
1453 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene
- 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM
1442 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed
- 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM
1479 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM
1393 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM
1466 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM
1325 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential
- 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM
1498 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken
- 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM
1522 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
- 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM
1448 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around
- 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM
1497 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance
- 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM
1409 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM*
- 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM
941 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least?
- 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM
1356 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken.
- 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM
1395 Views

*NM*