Active Users:2381 Time:18/06/2026 01:33:33 AM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
thnx for supplying the quote ... but it does support Elayne only "drawing as much as she dared" through the woman ... with the full strength of it she would be way too strong to be realistic.


Using as much as she dared means she used it to its maximum.

But let's not belabor that point. After all, it would only back up all the other quotes that support this gap between Elayne's level and the Forsaken level.

Some very compelling evidence is this:

Egwene states that Moghedien is significantly stronger than her. So much so that she could overwhelm Egwene quite easily. Egwene also says that the only sister who can match Moghedien, is Nynaeve, which clearly makes this a reference to STRENGTH, and not skill, as Nynaeve is less skilled than Ewgene in many respects, and certainly less skilled than Moghedien.

So this establishes a significant gap between Egwene and Moghedien. And to this you have to add all the growth in strength that Nynaeve still had to go through between the time that she matched Moghedien and when she eventually reaches her ultimate strength. It is very likely that she increased in strength by as much as a third after the point where she equalled Moghedien.

She was still growing stronger 5 Books later, while still not being at her full potential, even then.

This clearly establishes a massive gap between Egwene and Nynaeve's strength levels. And Nynaeve isn't even at the top of the female strength list. There are another 5 women stronger than her.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3489 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1819 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1646 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 882 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1548 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1760 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1591 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1566 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1607 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1491 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1618 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 967 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 1354 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1661 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1585 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1507 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 940 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1554 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1473 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1593 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 1399 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1503 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1524 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1543 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1472 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1370 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1652 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1656 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1553 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1507 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1331 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1403 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1361 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1467 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1464 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1467 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1414 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1420 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1540 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1564 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1471 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1700 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1497 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1528 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1309 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1409 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1403 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1489 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1457 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1398 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1403 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1480 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 1370 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1393 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1441 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1528 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1453 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1520 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1313 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1449 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 1267 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1553 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1541 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1451 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 734 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1489 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1616 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1519 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 1246 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1417 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1420 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1476 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1396 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 1273 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1428 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 1241 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1487 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1537 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1398 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1430 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1406 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1647 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1531 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1335 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1360 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 1244 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1361 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1512 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1443 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1505 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1391 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1437 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1424 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1474 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1381 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 942 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1425 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1355 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 1280 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1431 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1292 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1326 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1371 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1466 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1392 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1450 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1383 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1361 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1458 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1431 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1348 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1443 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1357 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1371 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 1262 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 1261 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1281 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1458 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 1305 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2814 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1424 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1555 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1318 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1425 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1438 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1413 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1358 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1321 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1521 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1458 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1457 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1464 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1520 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1616 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1340 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1332 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1446 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1422 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1460 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 1432 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1489 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 1433 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1455 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1463 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 958 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1376 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1401 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1327 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1370 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1542 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1494 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1356 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 808 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 1362 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1370 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1391 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1375 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1412 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1424 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1448 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 871 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1339 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1410 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1494 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 1273 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1438 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1467 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 1384 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1445 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 1353 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1437 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1605 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1490 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1589 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1377 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 909 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1310 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1336 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1474 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1386 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes