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Re: Well... DomA Send a noteboard - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM
You can't really substantiate that opinion. There are several quotes stating that Ishamael equalled Lews Therin in power.


But none of them is verbatim, all of them are interpretations from AOL texts by third agers, and we can't be sure the texts themselves truly referred to his OP raw strength and not to the power he wielded in the Shadow being comparable to LTT's in the Light. The other problem is that we know this comes from AS interpretation of AOL texts (or worse, Breaking and post-Breaking ones), and today's AS judge "power" on raw saidar potential, whereas all the signs in the series suggest AOLers also include skills when they speak of an Aes Sedai's power (they differentiate between strength and global power), that raw strength is only a factor in their global description (which only makes sense in a world full of angreal...). Mierin was as strong as any woman, yet she was only an Aes Sedai of middling power who never achieved anything worthy of a third name honorific. Her OP skills musn't be so amazing for someone as strong, she was a good OP scientist, good enough to enter the Collam Daan, but by the standards of her Age not remarkable, not enough to get any public attention for her skills. Just that might suggest she's not as powerful as LTT, that her mastery over saidar isn't enough to match his strength in saidin by higher efficiency.

The problem with Ishamael being so strong in saidin is that if he is, combined with his status as Nae'blis, it's extremely hard to understand why Demandred doesn't hate him just as much as he hates LTT. He envies Moridin's status, but nothing else. Demandred acts toward Moridin as if he is the stronger of the two.

Moridin is clearly strong, but I don't think we can be in any way certain of his exact strength, not even how he compares in raw strength to Demandred (who was second only to LTT) or Aginor (who had rare amazing skills in some areas that could very well taint his description as "powerful", unless we have a direct quote Dashiva matches Rand or almost in raw strength).

This message last edited by DomA on 19/11/2012 at 03:42:26 PM
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How many standard deviations is Lanfear - 15/11/2012 06:04:39 PM 2326 Views
Well... - 15/11/2012 07:02:45 PM 1335 Views
Hmm... - 15/11/2012 07:25:34 PM 1460 Views
see we CAN agree on stuff - 15/11/2012 07:56:12 PM 1299 Views
- 18/11/2012 08:37:22 PM 1164 Views
We've always been close with everything except the scale - 18/11/2012 10:29:07 PM 1208 Views
Re: - 18/11/2012 11:07:17 PM 1383 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 05:16:00 AM 1214 Views
Re: - 19/11/2012 03:13:01 PM 1204 Views
They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 03:19:19 PM 1224 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 04:01:43 PM 1427 Views
Re: They only reject 37.5%, not 62.5% - 19/11/2012 09:04:04 PM 1181 Views
Hmmm... - 20/11/2012 02:08:40 AM 1259 Views
Perhaps, but Egwene is also being a bit dramatic in the scene as she managed - 20/11/2012 04:28:57 AM 1213 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 03:13:13 PM 1271 Views
I believe she is being over dramatic - 20/11/2012 03:26:24 PM 1150 Views
Keep believing that... - 20/11/2012 03:30:14 PM 1295 Views
*shrugs* - 20/11/2012 03:49:10 PM 1250 Views
Tired and forkroot are the same now? - 20/11/2012 03:55:22 PM 1138 Views
No it's the literary device - 20/11/2012 04:04:28 PM 1273 Views
This is getting ridiculous... - 20/11/2012 04:43:13 PM 1142 Views
You are missing my point completely - 20/11/2012 04:50:46 PM 1103 Views
Impossible. Daigian is exactly 0.32SD below the mean - 19/11/2012 11:06:04 AM 1205 Views
You keep saying that, but it is either a linear or a non-linear distribution - 19/11/2012 09:09:32 PM 1270 Views
That's the whole point. Thanks for finally seeing it. - 19/11/2012 09:43:27 PM 1220 Views
keep believing that ... but you making up numbers isn't really relevant *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:29:44 AM 784 Views
Please show me a number that is made up. The 0.32SD for Daigian is a rule of statistics. - 20/11/2012 07:15:48 AM 1169 Views
Go read Fionwe's post about it *NM* - 20/11/2012 02:33:19 PM 786 Views
Is that before or after she started juicing? - 15/11/2012 11:04:14 PM 1199 Views
Wouldn't it be 1 in 105 million? - 21/11/2012 04:56:19 PM 1063 Views
Are you sure that it is a normal distribution? - 16/11/2012 04:21:02 PM 1266 Views
Ugh. I hate power level discussions. For real world applications, it should be kind of meaningless - 16/11/2012 10:28:49 PM 1156 Views
I don't really agree - 18/11/2012 08:40:53 PM 1130 Views
Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 19/11/2012 09:13:48 PM 1173 Views
Re: Perhaps, but we've seen that a MUCH weaker Channeler can win in a duel - 20/11/2012 08:10:01 AM 1150 Views
probably ... Lanfear/Cyndane is clearly remarkably skilled - 20/11/2012 02:35:09 PM 1193 Views
Since I've proven that it's not a normal distribution in units of absolute strength, SDs don't apply - 17/11/2012 07:48:21 PM 1205 Views
You have proven nothing, except that you have an opinion *NM* - 18/11/2012 02:21:35 AM 762 Views
You simply don't get it. It is mathematically a fact. There is no opinion involved. - 18/11/2012 02:19:40 PM 1041 Views
Only because you've assigned numeric values. That you created. - 18/11/2012 02:40:51 PM 1171 Views
It doesn't matter what figure you use... - 18/11/2012 03:01:56 PM 1060 Views
What if Daigian is one third Lanfear's strength? - 18/11/2012 04:37:58 PM 1212 Views
We have a limit for Daigian's strength, as you well know. - 18/11/2012 05:41:49 PM 1181 Views
Are you kidding me? - 18/11/2012 09:07:38 PM 1307 Views
Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:09:31 PM 1204 Views
Re: Sure you can - 18/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 1195 Views
You're right, though its 37.5% - 19/11/2012 12:21:29 AM 1149 Views
Oops, typo! - 19/11/2012 02:54:25 AM 1185 Views
Again, not possible, due to Daigian being just 0.3SD below the Mean - 19/11/2012 08:37:01 AM 1136 Views
Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 04:05:12 PM 1067 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 19/11/2012 05:55:02 PM 1020 Views
Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 19/11/2012 09:19:50 PM 1141 Views
Re: Egwene is about as strong as Melaine and Amys combined - 20/11/2012 02:11:26 AM 1220 Views
Forkroot in every case - 20/11/2012 04:32:26 AM 1139 Views
No! - 20/11/2012 03:15:16 PM 1130 Views
I'm not going to go re-read the books to you on this - 20/11/2012 03:39:46 PM 1156 Views
You need to read it for yourself, since you're completely confused. - 20/11/2012 03:54:26 PM 1129 Views
Not going to argue this with you. - 20/11/2012 04:09:44 PM 1077 Views
Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 04:39:25 PM 1193 Views
let's see, she's both asleep and would need hours to regain her strength - 20/11/2012 04:43:17 PM 1093 Views
Enough! - 20/11/2012 05:04:06 PM 1152 Views
LOL ... whatever. You go on believing that ... no one else sees it this way. *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:20:52 PM 749 Views
What a brilliant argument! - 20/11/2012 05:25:18 PM 1163 Views
this is why I refuse to continue this debate - 20/11/2012 05:31:11 PM 1105 Views
Re: Your own example disproved your point... - 20/11/2012 05:10:15 PM 1193 Views
Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:26:31 PM 1200 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:31:50 PM 1168 Views
Re: Barasine + Katerine isn't that much less than - 20/11/2012 05:42:53 PM 1151 Views
Excuse me? - 20/11/2012 05:28:48 PM 1214 Views
see we can agree on the relative strength of Egwene v. Forsaken - 20/11/2012 05:35:07 PM 1160 Views
??? - 20/11/2012 05:37:01 PM 1257 Views
2 middling sisters - 20/11/2012 05:45:27 PM 1190 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:26:47 AM 1096 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 09:03:40 AM 1127 Views
Re: Egwene is definitely not 2x Amys... - 20/11/2012 02:59:08 PM 1163 Views
None of this is backed by any evidence... - 20/11/2012 03:24:12 PM 1098 Views
who said Cadsuane was 1.5x Moiraine or more? - 20/11/2012 04:03:13 PM 1109 Views
Nope... - 20/11/2012 04:41:35 PM 1132 Views
wrong - 20/11/2012 04:48:50 PM 1056 Views
My bad. Mized up 1/3 and 2/3. - 20/11/2012 05:05:05 PM 1170 Views
gotcha *NM* - 20/11/2012 05:46:21 PM 717 Views
Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 03:18:55 PM 1142 Views
Huh? How did you come to that conclusion? - 20/11/2012 04:40:56 PM 1147 Views
Exactly *NM* - 20/11/2012 04:55:28 PM 1097 Views
BEcause Cadsuane is close on the heels of Egwene? - 20/11/2012 05:10:50 PM 1056 Views
I'm not arguing that. I agree that Cadsuane is pretty close to Egwene - 20/11/2012 05:50:34 PM 1180 Views
Re: Better evidence? LOL! - 20/11/2012 05:00:47 PM 1060 Views
Interesting, but let's go with your figures... - 19/11/2012 06:54:54 AM 1180 Views
Indeed - 19/11/2012 08:16:44 AM 1232 Views
Rand is sort of a special case - 20/11/2012 04:25:02 AM 1098 Views
Regarding Mesaana... - 20/11/2012 08:42:56 AM 1131 Views
You continue to mix two things - 20/11/2012 03:24:44 PM 1058 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:54:19 PM 1298 Views
You are mistaken - 20/11/2012 05:04:40 PM 1145 Views
Yes she did Darius! - 20/11/2012 05:27:36 PM 1069 Views
Yet there is no duel - 20/11/2012 06:01:17 PM 1078 Views
Explain the .3xSD thing to me... - 19/11/2012 04:58:57 PM 1300 Views
Probably, but the AS have no idea what 37.5% means - 19/11/2012 02:59:26 AM 1094 Views
It's irrelevant - 19/11/2012 03:46:42 AM 1163 Views
Agreed. Daigian is the marker of the absolute bottom of Aes Sedai strength. - 19/11/2012 06:55:41 AM 1134 Views
Daigian - 19/11/2012 08:12:19 AM 1142 Views
It is a direct marker due to RJ's quote - 19/11/2012 08:50:26 AM 1165 Views
You missed my point - 19/11/2012 09:08:42 AM 1083 Views
Re: You missed my point - 19/11/2012 02:18:33 PM 1191 Views
Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 04:41:11 AM 1113 Views
Re: Asmodean would never have made the comment about 13 weakest AS - 20/11/2012 09:07:49 AM 1089 Views
Which would make an average AS around a 30 - 20/11/2012 04:58:56 PM 991 Views
Re: Sure you can - 19/11/2012 09:22:09 AM 1225 Views
Care to explain this... - 19/11/2012 05:06:28 PM 1045 Views
Indeed - 20/11/2012 07:16:37 AM 1248 Views
Explained far better than I ever could. Bravo. - 20/11/2012 07:30:29 AM 1103 Views
Well duh. - 20/11/2012 02:57:24 PM 1224 Views
Incorrect. - 20/11/2012 04:28:07 PM 1203 Views
No - 20/11/2012 04:44:16 PM 1189 Views
Re: No - 20/11/2012 04:48:36 PM 1159 Views
That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:18:46 PM 1027 Views
Re: That depends... - 20/11/2012 05:31:03 PM 1584 Views
You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 02:55:06 PM 1155 Views
Re: You're integrating without lower limits... - 20/11/2012 04:37:57 PM 1204 Views
It matters. - 20/11/2012 05:22:40 PM 1176 Views
We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 04:44:24 AM 996 Views
Re: We are not talking about a normal distribution in any case - 20/11/2012 07:02:47 AM 1202 Views
You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 03:10:09 PM 1071 Views
Re: You must tell me of this special math... - 20/11/2012 04:29:40 PM 1130 Views
Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:45:42 PM 1212 Views
Re: Morghase is a placeholder... - 20/11/2012 04:49:54 PM 1501 Views
Why? - 20/11/2012 05:23:29 PM 1166 Views
Re: Why? - 20/11/2012 05:36:45 PM 1476 Views
Well... - 18/11/2012 08:43:59 PM 1200 Views
Re: Well... - 19/11/2012 03:40:44 PM 1182 Views
Wow. - 19/11/2012 03:53:47 PM 1208 Views
Re: Wow. - 19/11/2012 04:26:09 PM 1230 Views
Some points - 19/11/2012 06:03:00 PM 1277 Views
Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 06:09:36 PM 1121 Views
Re: Well then you're both wrong I'm afraid - 19/11/2012 07:42:58 PM 992 Views
this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 04:51:20 AM 1213 Views
Agreed - 20/11/2012 08:13:37 AM 1258 Views
probably - 20/11/2012 06:18:45 PM 1112 Views
Re: this is why I think all of the Forsaken are very close in Power - 20/11/2012 02:45:18 PM 1114 Views
I think RJ went out of his way to keep strength a bit of a mystery - 20/11/2012 08:42:44 PM 1141 Views
Indeed... - 21/11/2012 05:44:18 PM 1097 Views
I agree - 22/11/2012 01:43:02 AM 1346 Views
Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 21/11/2012 05:12:24 PM 1155 Views
the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 02:55:03 AM 1194 Views
Re: the problem is that the Mean is not going to tell us much really - 22/11/2012 03:15:33 AM 1524 Views
I do not think you can calculate the Mean without knowing the Units of Power - 22/11/2012 03:53:59 AM 1272 Views
Re: Math gurus...Is it possible to find the missing variable... - 23/11/2012 02:59:12 PM 1579 Views
Disregard this post *NM* - 23/11/2012 03:02:24 PM 980 Views

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