It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
Sidious Send a noteboard - 15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM
The thing is, everyone else has matured.
Rand, Mat and Perrin are friends, but don't nearly have that old relationship they used to. You'd never catch Perrin saying "My Lord Dragon," and nor should he, but he was willing to work with Rand
Everyone respects Nynaeve, but not to the point where they are afraid of her, and Nynaeve in turn accepts that she's no longer their Wisdom.
Thom hasn't interacted with Rand in a while, but even their relationship matured- Thom kept being a mentor figure to be listened to, but it became more that he was an advisor than a grizzled old man keeping a kid from cutting his neck while shaving (which was how it was in EotW)
And as for "Egwene and Rand have been fighting since they were toddlers..." from tDR on, Rand hasn't been fighting with Egwene- Egwene has been fighting with Rand. Their relationship isn't a "buddy-buddy bickering" relationship- it's a "I'm still the domineering girl from the village of our childhood still treating you like you're a stuttering man-child that doesn't know what's best for you" relationship.
tl;dr "Proving she's better than Rand" is not an admirable, healthy or mature state for the leader of the Lightside's female channelers to be in.
Rand, Mat and Perrin are friends, but don't nearly have that old relationship they used to. You'd never catch Perrin saying "My Lord Dragon," and nor should he, but he was willing to work with Rand
Everyone respects Nynaeve, but not to the point where they are afraid of her, and Nynaeve in turn accepts that she's no longer their Wisdom.
Thom hasn't interacted with Rand in a while, but even their relationship matured- Thom kept being a mentor figure to be listened to, but it became more that he was an advisor than a grizzled old man keeping a kid from cutting his neck while shaving (which was how it was in EotW)
And as for "Egwene and Rand have been fighting since they were toddlers..." from tDR on, Rand hasn't been fighting with Egwene- Egwene has been fighting with Rand. Their relationship isn't a "buddy-buddy bickering" relationship- it's a "I'm still the domineering girl from the village of our childhood still treating you like you're a stuttering man-child that doesn't know what's best for you" relationship.
tl;dr "Proving she's better than Rand" is not an admirable, healthy or mature state for the leader of the Lightside's female channelers to be in.
Egwene has been the most mature of the Emonds Fielders since the beginning. Since the start of the series she's openly stated that she's wanted to become an Aes Sedai. Nynaeve, Mat, Rand and Perrin all denied and resented their destinies for the greater part of the series. How can you say that everyone has matured except Egwene? If anything, the others are finally starting to behave like adults.
There are multiple quotes in the series showing that Rand doesn't want to trust Egwene. He's paranoid by nature. When she arrived to warn him about the Aes Sedai trying to capture him, he laughs at her and ignores her warning, only to be captured a week later and tortured. By TGS, everyone is afraid of Rand, even his own father. And don't forget... he is insane due to some effect of the taint, and other issues.
Almost all the Emond's Fielders treat Rand the same as they used to. Perrin has nothing to say because he's too dimwitted, but even he has commented. Mat is childish with no real purpose in life unless someone gives it to him, and he too will say something of use. Nynaeve and Egwene are the only two who tell Rand exactly what they think, with Nynaeve doing exactly that in TGS despite his homicidal tendencies. Egwene's certainly going to give him a run for his money when they finally meet. I don't know why you find this surprising or irritating.
Finally, Egwene has obligations as the Amyrlin Seat. She's not going to let the DR enslave the White Tower just because he needs them. He tried that with Tuon and the Borderland armies, and it failed. He needs a new tactic especially against one of the most formidible Amyrlin's in history, who is also notoriously stubborn in his presence.
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God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene
14/02/2010 07:02:20 AM
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My sentiments exactly, though I think I'm a little more hopeful than you are.
14/02/2010 07:58:01 AM
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Re: My sentiments exactly, though I think I'm a little more hopeful than you are.
14/02/2010 09:26:47 AM
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Just like Elayne treated him so well when she kicked him out of Andor?
14/02/2010 01:35:32 PM
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What? We are no longer allowed to make predictions of the coming books unless they're pro-Egwene?
14/02/2010 02:22:10 PM
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a theory vs. mindlessly attacking a character because you don't like them?
14/02/2010 07:00:27 PM
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It IS kind of ridiculous... but how do YOU think a meeting will go?
14/02/2010 07:20:08 PM
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Is Egwene going to do what Elayne did when she met Rand after tearing down his banners?
15/02/2010 11:25:27 AM
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You just KNOW that rather than compliment all the good he's done....
14/02/2010 03:06:09 PM
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Personally, I'm rooting for Elaida's Foretelling to be fake
14/02/2010 06:56:41 PM
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No way these are fake... she's not BA and she she says she's having a Foretelling
14/02/2010 08:24:29 PM
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Good point. And the "rent in fire and blood" part is almost certain as well.
16/02/2010 05:13:29 PM
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Take a sedative
14/02/2010 07:52:32 PM
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None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping
14/02/2010 09:01:35 PM
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Right cause Nynaeve is always going around telling people how much Mat's changed
14/02/2010 09:27:02 PM
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If you'll recall what Mat did 5 minutes after...
14/02/2010 11:06:41 PM
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Not really
14/02/2010 11:34:49 PM
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Re: Not really
15/02/2010 03:32:06 PM
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better than Nynaeve who just lies to herself in order to justify her actions!
15/02/2010 05:53:17 PM
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This is about Egwene, not Nynaeve.
15/02/2010 06:09:46 PM
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actually it's about all of the main characters
15/02/2010 06:13:27 PM
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Re: actually it's about all of the main characters
15/02/2010 06:39:25 PM
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Well said.
15/02/2010 07:20:47 PM
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Re: Well said.
15/02/2010 07:43:08 PM
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yet even Siuan seems to understand and accept Egwene's response ... odd that you can hold her to
16/02/2010 01:55:35 AM
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Oh, so Elaida's treatment of Sheremin is ok because Sheremin accepted it?
16/02/2010 06:49:53 AM
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watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon
16/02/2010 01:51:09 AM
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Re: watch out that you don't fall when you jump on a bandwagon
16/02/2010 07:04:08 AM
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Alright enough. Will you read the books already?
16/02/2010 08:03:39 AM
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The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason
16/02/2010 01:34:30 AM
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Re: The point is people hold Egwene to a different standard for some reason
16/02/2010 07:08:13 AM
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Yes, but Egwene's is pride -
15/02/2010 07:04:25 PM
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I think Nyn has had the best character development, bar none
15/02/2010 08:52:54 PM
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Re: None of the Emond's Fielders suck up to him. There's difference between hostile and 1-upping
15/02/2010 05:08:49 AM
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It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
15/02/2010 06:53:30 AM
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Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
15/02/2010 08:41:02 AM
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Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
15/02/2010 03:31:26 PM
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Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
15/02/2010 11:57:24 AM
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Who says Egwene didn't have a destiny? *NM*
15/02/2010 12:46:10 PM
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Me. And I'm way smarter than you.
15/02/2010 01:04:48 PM
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15/02/2010 02:12:26 PM
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Re:
15/02/2010 10:40:39 PM
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Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main
16/02/2010 01:32:45 AM
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Re: Min's viewing of the Darkness v. fireflies very obviously shows that all the main
16/02/2010 07:09:52 AM
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Re: It amazes me that you use Rand as the gold standard for good behaviour
15/02/2010 03:48:51 PM
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Sidious' problem in a nutshell.
15/02/2010 11:27:12 AM
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Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene
14/02/2010 07:56:23 PM
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Re: God I am so pissed off at Future Egwene
14/02/2010 08:55:58 PM
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I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then
14/02/2010 08:59:26 PM
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Re: I'd venture the guess that it's what the called the Novices back then
14/02/2010 09:24:23 PM
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I don't think so
14/02/2010 09:30:41 PM
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Re: I don't think so
15/02/2010 03:45:52 PM
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That's pretty much how I see it too
15/02/2010 05:54:14 PM
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I understood little sister to be a mild insult, Moiraine being so young and weak in the OP *NM*
16/02/2010 08:25:55 PM
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maybe a touch patronizing? *NM*
17/02/2010 12:51:25 PM
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Appears to be, but his thought process implies it's not as simple as him merely looking down on her. *NM*
17/02/2010 05:07:19 PM
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand
14/02/2010 08:05:40 PM
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Re: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be flattering for Rand
14/02/2010 11:55:40 PM
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Cadsuane needs to spank her.
15/02/2010 01:31:49 AM
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yeah, that's worked so well on her in the past
15/02/2010 01:48:05 AM
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It would be a very amusing moment.
15/02/2010 03:01:37 AM
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IMO it would merely be a hypocritical moment of massive proportions
15/02/2010 04:45:27 AM
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and a massive failure
15/02/2010 06:57:18 AM
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What Egwene needs is to be shown that her actions could harm the tower.
15/02/2010 08:46:30 AM
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If you hate arrogance, you must hate all the main characters in the series
15/02/2010 03:21:48 PM
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Everyone else is shown to be a bit small minded. Egwene is implied to be Strong And Wise
15/02/2010 09:23:47 PM
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When has she ever actually done that? Rand thinks she will, but so far she's done nothing like it!
16/02/2010 02:08:23 AM
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I meant that EVERYONE is bargaining, posturing, etc.
16/02/2010 02:54:29 AM
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Well miscommunication is one of the major themes of the series
16/02/2010 01:17:25 PM
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the most idiotic theme IMO
16/02/2010 03:27:26 PM
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I don't know if the theme itself is idoitic, but I would totally agree that it's gone nowhere!
17/02/2010 03:16:30 AM
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Re: Everyone else is shown to be a bit small minded. Egwene is implied to be Strong And Wise
18/02/2010 01:19:00 AM
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No, Cannoli has the right of it here.
16/02/2010 06:22:39 PM
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Well, all those beatings were in private
16/02/2010 07:54:00 PM
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That was the point of the scene in front of the Sitters during the banquet. *NM*
23/02/2010 06:58:50 PM
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Oh the one where Elaida tried to have her way with Egwene while the Sitters looked away?
*NM*
23/02/2010 10:12:04 PM
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Yes. Elaida wanted Egwene to be cowed in front of her into obedience, which would erode her support
23/02/2010 10:18:03 PM
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