An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
Camilla Send a noteboard - 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
As I said in the characters post, I really, really like the moment when the veil parts or the fog clears for Harry, when he realises how it all fits together. It is one of my favourite moments in this part of the book precisely because I love this type of clarity, especially when there have been cryptic hints galore in the chapters leading up to it. I have not felt it as much this time, mainly because I knew what was coming and could see the pointers along the way, but I remember the first time I read it.
A question, however: why is Harry's link to Voldemort's mind suddenly blurry? Do we ever get an explanation?
Ted Tonks' death hit me surprisingly hard. I think because we have seen him so recently and this was off-screen.
Does the taboo break all protective enchantments? And is that established? It seems like it does in the way they react to the Snatchers, but I cannot remember that being established beforehand. I know Ron says Kingsley was cornered, but that does not mean he was protected by anything.
The torture scene highlights, for me at least, the importance of Snape's delivering the sword anonymously. And perhaps it is with this possibility in view that he did the water trick. It could be plausibly suggested that the sword has traveled there on its own, manifesting itself to a true gryffindor if someone finds out. Torture is of course only half the problem. Legilimency is the other.
Wormtail is killed when repaying Harry (in part) for his earlier mercy. Gollum.
I like how Harry contrasts grief with love, when thinking about Dumbeldore's idea of what keeps Voldemort at bay. Love is a component of the grief, of course, but it would be interesting to know whether just thinking about Ginny could do the same. There does seem to be a part of it when he forces Voldemort away to try to keep his wits about him and protect his friends as they are brought to the manor. Surely that is love. But it does not work that well.
The Fidelius Charm shows up again, but it does not resolve anything. They have both chosen to be their own secret-keepers, so it must be presumed that both only have secret houses (we know that to be the case with Bill's cottage.
The wand problem is finally made explicit by Ollivander, opening the way to the finale. I have some issues with this introduction of the taking of a wand. Considering how many times Harry has said "expelliarmus", there can hardly be anyone in the wizarding world still in control of their own wands.
A question, however: why is Harry's link to Voldemort's mind suddenly blurry? Do we ever get an explanation?
Ted Tonks' death hit me surprisingly hard. I think because we have seen him so recently and this was off-screen.
Does the taboo break all protective enchantments? And is that established? It seems like it does in the way they react to the Snatchers, but I cannot remember that being established beforehand. I know Ron says Kingsley was cornered, but that does not mean he was protected by anything.
The torture scene highlights, for me at least, the importance of Snape's delivering the sword anonymously. And perhaps it is with this possibility in view that he did the water trick. It could be plausibly suggested that the sword has traveled there on its own, manifesting itself to a true gryffindor if someone finds out. Torture is of course only half the problem. Legilimency is the other.
Wormtail is killed when repaying Harry (in part) for his earlier mercy. Gollum.
I like how Harry contrasts grief with love, when thinking about Dumbeldore's idea of what keeps Voldemort at bay. Love is a component of the grief, of course, but it would be interesting to know whether just thinking about Ginny could do the same. There does seem to be a part of it when he forces Voldemort away to try to keep his wits about him and protect his friends as they are brought to the manor. Surely that is love. But it does not work that well.
The Fidelius Charm shows up again, but it does not resolve anything. They have both chosen to be their own secret-keepers, so it must be presumed that both only have secret houses (we know that to be the case with Bill's cottage.
The wand problem is finally made explicit by Ollivander, opening the way to the finale. I have some issues with this introduction of the taking of a wand. Considering how many times Harry has said "expelliarmus", there can hardly be anyone in the wizarding world still in control of their own wands.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
6071 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
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The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
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Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
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This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
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Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
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Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
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Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
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Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
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Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
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Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
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Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
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Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
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Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
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As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
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Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
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Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
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Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
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Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
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Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
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other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
2374 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
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Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
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Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
1269 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
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Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
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Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2714 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
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Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
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Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
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Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
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Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
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The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
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I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
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The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
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Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
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Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
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I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
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Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
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Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
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Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up.
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
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Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
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Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
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I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
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Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
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Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
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Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
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Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
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Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
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I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
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Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
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Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
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The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
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Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
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And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
1257 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
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Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
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Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
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Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
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Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
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Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
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Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
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Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
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Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
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It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
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Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
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Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
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Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
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Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2755 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2466 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
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Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
2367 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
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Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
2400 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
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But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
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Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
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Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1302 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2559 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
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Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
2412 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2493 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
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Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
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Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
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Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2500 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
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up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
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- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
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They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
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Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
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Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2487 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2487 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2583 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2583 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
2322 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1280 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2681 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
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Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2671 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
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Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2504 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
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Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
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- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
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Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1259 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
2348 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
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Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
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Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
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Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1227 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
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Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
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Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
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red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
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Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
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Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
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Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
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Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
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Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
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Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
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Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
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Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
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Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
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Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
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red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
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Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
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Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
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Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
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Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
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Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
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Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
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The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
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memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
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Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
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Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
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Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
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Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
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Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
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Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
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