Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
Camilla Send a noteboard - 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
His tactics with regard to Griphook and the sword bother me a little. It is nonsense, of course: he cannot guarantee that Griphook will get it once they are done with it. He is heading of to quite possibly be killed, and I doubt Voldemort is going to hand it over to a goblin who claims Harry Potter said he could have it.
In fairness, he only promises he'll give him the sword. If others then confiscate it, he can't help that. But yes, it's sneaky, even if Rowling avoids any morally dubious acts on Harry's part in the end by having Griphook act as he does.
Yes.
I also find it strange how easily he slips into using the Imperius Curse. The Greater Good idea keeps turning up, explicitly or implicitly, and I see this as one of those times.
Yes, that's rather interesting, isn't it? And with Bogrod he doesn't even have the excuse of his victim being a Death Eater. I take it Bellatrix' "you've got to mean it, boy!" only really referred to the Crucio and AK. Or else it was his sense of urgency that got the job done.
And he uses the Cruciatus curse in the next set of chapters as well, without blinking. It is a little disturbing.
He also turns reckless. He heard Voldemort think that there would be alarms if he showed up in Hogsmeade, yet he does not think twice about apparating there.
In fairness, he has his reasons and they are good (though there would've been something to be said for sending one of the three away with the cup). I'm more concerned about how awfully convenient it is that he has the visions again, and that they tell him so much.
True. Although I think a fairly convincing case could be made for Voldemort feeling much more strongly when he sees him now. And it has been established before that the connection is stronger when there is strong emotion involved. And when Harry is tired, which by now he is -- he fights a dragon and then does not sleep until the book is over, I think.
Fleur: Her annoyance at being sent with a message by Griphook is not her best trait. I keep getting confused about Fleur. She seems like a very contradictory character.
Griphook isn't a very sympathetic fellow at the best of times. Why should she like having to convey his messages and being treated as a servant in her own house? Bad enough that he has to stay there for so long without anyone even telling her why.
I sometimes have the sneaking suspcion that Fleur's veela charms have translated through the books and affected you
I don't really find her contradictory so much as too little fleshed out. Her turning into an imitation of Molly is kind of lame, and seems unrealistic and, if I dare say so, a bit sexist as well. She's supposed to be a highly capable and brave witch, after all.
True. But then so is Molly.
Ron: He is back to being stupid in his interaction with Griphook, suggesting that he steal from the Lestranges &c. Both feet firmly planted in the salad. And trying to get Harry to lie. I sometimes think it is a little unfair on Ron to make him the character who must display all the prejudices of wizarding society. Yes, he is the wizardborn of the trio, and so the natural candidate, but you are never entirely a product of society as a whole, and there is something which jarrs here.
Not to me, really. Especially since, as Bill makes clear, the wizards' treatment of goblins does have its reasons.
There is a difference of understanding. I fail to see why the wizards' view must be the right one here. If the goblins make something and say that you can pay to borrow it for as long as you live, and then the wizards keep it and pass it on to their children, I'd say they have a legitimate grievance.
Griphook: I like that he is not an annoying saint like Dobby. The point is that you should respect other sentient beings because that is what you should do, not because they are nice.
Indeed. The point has been made with the centaurs too, but there you could justify most, if perhaps not all, of their behaviour by pointing at the insults that usually precede it. Not so much here.
Lupin: I like to see him happy. And I like that he made Harry godfather. And I like that in between his insane mythical/Latin wolf-names he is called John. And I like that he checks who is present before he flows over with joy. I have always been a great fan of the paranoid side of Lupin.
Yeah, it's funny when Rowling does that. Hermione is Jane too, isn't she? And then little Teddy, such a prosaic name for a kid whose parents have names like that.
The Dragon: I feel so sorry for it. It is horribly how it has been tortured. Damned capitalists. It is also interesting that here another mistreated magical creature again helps Harry. However unaware.
True. I think mostly Rowling just wanted to go for the extremely spectacular and give her screenwriters an opportunity to go to town on the CGI, though. 
Quite possibly.
Bellatrix and Lucius: As Voldemort starts killing people indiscriminately, how much do they understand? They cannot know the true value of the cup, although it sounds as if he has told them somthing with his talk of trusting too much.
Hard to say, really... if they're not complete nitwits, they should suspect that he has Horcruxes by now, and then I guess the connection is easily made. But then Bellatrix isn't exactly the brightest crayon in the box, and Lucius is no fool but somewhat of an amateur when it comes to the Dark Arts, one might be forgiven for thinking.
It depends how thoroughly obscure horcruxes are. If they have never heard of them, there would be no reason to make the connection.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
6201 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
2518 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
2549 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
2587 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
2492 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
2720 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
2650 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
2685 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
2735 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
2648 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
2686 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
2755 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2843 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
2684 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
2674 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
2688 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
2614 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
2527 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
2726 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
2598 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
1196 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
2483 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
2428 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
2534 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
1318 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
2631 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
2853 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2808 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
2447 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2842 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
2463 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
1321 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
2459 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
2576 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
2489 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
2411 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
2482 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
2552 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
2572 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
1269 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
2707 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1314 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1314 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
1245 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
2558 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
2454 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
2451 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
2734 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
2774 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
1260 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
2770 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
2550 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
2553 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
2582 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
2646 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
2377 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
2646 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
1312 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
2658 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
2542 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1433 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
2528 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
2751 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
2683 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
2586 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
2703 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
2752 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
1327 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
2534 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
2508 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
2550 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
2700 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
2671 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2740 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2872 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
2535 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2565 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2790 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
2490 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
2528 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
2500 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
2511 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
2519 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
2567 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1351 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2677 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
2728 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
2604 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2782 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
2621 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
2569 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
2566 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
2546 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
2516 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2593 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
2546 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
2662 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
2579 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2625 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
2481 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2257 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2257 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
2433 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
2612 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2594 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2594 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2705 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2705 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
2430 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1331 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2783 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
2600 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2793 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
2582 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2605 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2605 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2661 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2661 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1304 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
2452 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
2646 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
2647 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
2476 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1280 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
2637 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
2612 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
2695 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
2542 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
2689 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
2705 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2858 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
1262 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
2447 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
1192 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
2501 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
2474 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
2507 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
2499 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
1316 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
1242 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2771 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
2572 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
2586 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
2602 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
1292 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
2571 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
2549 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
2787 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
1303 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
2534 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
2436 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2810 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
2581 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
2366 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
2440 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
2500 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
2612 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
2452 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
2584 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
2535 Views