Dumbledore: I like how Dumbledore is made human here. His regrets and how his rejection of power is founded in a belief that he cannot be trusted with it. I am not sure it is justified, as power does not seem to have been his main goal even as he was teaming up with Grindewald.
That's a good point. And I liked the previously suggested reasons for his refusal to become Minister better.
Although the Malfoys should perhaps be mentioned. They have shown themselves as surprisingly loving parents throughout (especially considering the scenes in earlier books where Draco's relationship with his father, especially, seems to be characterised by a lack of (demonstrated, at any rate) love. I like how Narcissa saves Harry to save Draco, and how the Malfoys cannot be bothered with the fighting once they are inside the castle. It would be too much of a stretch to have them fight on the side of Good, and I prefer this rejection of sides at all in favour of finding their son.
Agreed with that. One gets the impression that the balance of power in the family has shifted, Narcissa being in the lead now and Lucius following, and that has its consequences in what they do.
Yes, I think you are right.
And Molly. It was mentioned earlier that Molly has become a sort of housewifey caricature character when in earlier times she would have been both competent and courageous. I like that this resurfaces in this final battle. Yes, her provocation is an attack on her one daughter (which brings back up Ron's suspicions), but her competency is unquestionable, as the woman who could easily fend off Hermione, Luna and Ginny in one go is suddenly forced to concentrate.
Well, see, it is in itself defensible that a grown woman is indeed more of a force to be reckoned with than three schoolgirls, even when those three schoolgirls are rather good for their age. It is possible to say, look here, Ginny may be redoubtable and all, but that's only by schoolgirl standards. Unfortunately, considering that the entirety of book seven consists of three schoolkids doing everything by themselves, ignoring the adults and carrying the day, it feels rather inconsistent to suddenly give such weight to adult experience now. It would have been far more credible if 1) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with a quick lucky shot, 2) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with the aid of the girls, or of course 3) Bellatrix had summarily defeated or even killed Molly.
So, yeah, I still really don't like it. That she throws herself into that fight, absolutely; that she is better than the three girls combined and defeats Bellatrix in a fair fight, absolutely not.
I really disagree. My point is precisely that Molly is not just a grown woman, which is what she has been presented as throughout the series. That is what I referred to with the housewifey caricature comment. She is presented as someone whose main character trait is that she is an adult with children. But she was a member of the Order in her own right when she was young. So it is not a matter of experience trumping ability. It is the two together. Plus determination to protect her own -- and it has already been established that feelings affect spells (I'm thinking of the crucio spell). The one thing I find a little problematic is that she would tell everyone to not participate, as it would make sense to get as much help as possible, but I suppose that is covered by the protecting the young trait which has been presented as her main one.
Voldemort: I was intrigued by his reaction to Bellatrix' death. Considering his attitude to her lately, I would not have expected him to care. It must be a result of everyone else having fallen, but even so that reaction seems uncharacteristic.
I suppose he does appreciate having a fiercely loyal psycho by his side who hangs on his every word? 
To be fair, who wouldn't?
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
6341 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
2610 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
2641 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
2680 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
2581 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
2808 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
2741 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
2800 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
2827 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
2751 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
2793 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
2856 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2932 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
2783 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
2767 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
2779 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
2699 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
2611 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
2814 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
2698 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
1248 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
2577 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
2515 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
2623 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
1373 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
2719 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
2964 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2900 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
2535 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2937 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
2559 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
1383 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
2544 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
2670 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
2587 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
2528 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
2579 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
2644 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
2660 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
1331 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
2797 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1376 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
1376 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
1302 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
2653 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
2553 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
2543 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
2834 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
2867 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
1324 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
2862 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
2638 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
2649 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
2677 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
2735 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
2491 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
2745 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
1363 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
2745 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
2639 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1489 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
2629 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
2854 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
2774 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
2673 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
2804 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
2850 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
1382 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
2628 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
2602 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
2629 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
2788 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
2769 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2834 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2964 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
2622 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
2660 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2873 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
2579 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
2631 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
2591 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
2607 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
2617 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
2642 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
1413 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
2778 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
2815 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
2716 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2877 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
2722 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
2658 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
2671 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
2639 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
2618 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
2692 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
2637 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
2755 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
2693 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
2749 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
2580 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2362 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
2362 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
2532 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
2701 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2691 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
2691 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2804 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
2804 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
2520 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
1398 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2899 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
2686 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2890 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
2672 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2704 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
2704 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2751 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
2751 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
1363 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
2540 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
2738 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
2740 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
2575 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
1335 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
2743 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
2716 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
2794 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
2641 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
2775 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
2806 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2962 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
1320 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
2545 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
1251 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
2593 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
2584 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
2610 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
2613 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
1368 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
1299 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2866 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
2673 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
2697 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
2714 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
1347 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
2676 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
2642 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
2889 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
1364 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
2633 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
2532 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2928 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
2671 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
2467 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
2534 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
2593 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
2704 Views
The Malfoys and Molly
- 01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM
2807 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly
- 02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM
2793 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
2543 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
2676 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
2628 Views