Dumbledore: I like how Dumbledore is made human here. His regrets and how his rejection of power is founded in a belief that he cannot be trusted with it. I am not sure it is justified, as power does not seem to have been his main goal even as he was teaming up with Grindewald.
That's a good point. And I liked the previously suggested reasons for his refusal to become Minister better.
Although the Malfoys should perhaps be mentioned. They have shown themselves as surprisingly loving parents throughout (especially considering the scenes in earlier books where Draco's relationship with his father, especially, seems to be characterised by a lack of (demonstrated, at any rate) love. I like how Narcissa saves Harry to save Draco, and how the Malfoys cannot be bothered with the fighting once they are inside the castle. It would be too much of a stretch to have them fight on the side of Good, and I prefer this rejection of sides at all in favour of finding their son.
Agreed with that. One gets the impression that the balance of power in the family has shifted, Narcissa being in the lead now and Lucius following, and that has its consequences in what they do.
Yes, I think you are right.
And Molly. It was mentioned earlier that Molly has become a sort of housewifey caricature character when in earlier times she would have been both competent and courageous. I like that this resurfaces in this final battle. Yes, her provocation is an attack on her one daughter (which brings back up Ron's suspicions), but her competency is unquestionable, as the woman who could easily fend off Hermione, Luna and Ginny in one go is suddenly forced to concentrate.
Well, see, it is in itself defensible that a grown woman is indeed more of a force to be reckoned with than three schoolgirls, even when those three schoolgirls are rather good for their age. It is possible to say, look here, Ginny may be redoubtable and all, but that's only by schoolgirl standards. Unfortunately, considering that the entirety of book seven consists of three schoolkids doing everything by themselves, ignoring the adults and carrying the day, it feels rather inconsistent to suddenly give such weight to adult experience now. It would have been far more credible if 1) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with a quick lucky shot, 2) Molly had defeated Bellatrix with the aid of the girls, or of course 3) Bellatrix had summarily defeated or even killed Molly.
So, yeah, I still really don't like it. That she throws herself into that fight, absolutely; that she is better than the three girls combined and defeats Bellatrix in a fair fight, absolutely not.
I really disagree. My point is precisely that Molly is not just a grown woman, which is what she has been presented as throughout the series. That is what I referred to with the housewifey caricature comment. She is presented as someone whose main character trait is that she is an adult with children. But she was a member of the Order in her own right when she was young. So it is not a matter of experience trumping ability. It is the two together. Plus determination to protect her own -- and it has already been established that feelings affect spells (I'm thinking of the crucio spell). The one thing I find a little problematic is that she would tell everyone to not participate, as it would make sense to get as much help as possible, but I suppose that is covered by the protecting the young trait which has been presented as her main one.
Voldemort: I was intrigued by his reaction to Bellatrix' death. Considering his attitude to her lately, I would not have expected him to care. It must be a result of everyone else having fallen, but even so that reaction seems uncharacteristic.
I suppose he does appreciate having a fiercely loyal psycho by his side who hangs on his every word? 
To be fair, who wouldn't?
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
structured procrastinator
The Great Harry Potter Re-read: Book 7 - The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:47:44 PM
3953 Views
Suggestions - tell us what we could do better for this final discussion.
- 24/11/2010 07:48:22 PM
1776 Views
The series as a whole: overall thoughts about the Harry Potter universe and all it contains
- 24/11/2010 07:49:21 PM
1813 Views
Overall thoughts for The Deathly Hallows
- 24/11/2010 07:50:12 PM
1880 Views
This might be the only book other than the first where I actually like Harry.
- 30/11/2010 03:13:25 PM
1788 Views
Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 03:45:24 PM
1920 Views
Re: Argh, I keep mixing everything up with the movie!
- 04/12/2010 10:33:03 PM
1942 Views
Going all the way back to the beginning in a number of ways, all of them so far excellent.
- 07/12/2010 10:19:33 PM
1963 Views
Having finished it again... it's good, at times great, but not the best book in the series, imho.
- 26/12/2010 08:19:47 PM
2040 Views
Chapters 1-3: The Dark Lord Ascending, In Memorian, The Dursleys Departing.
- 24/11/2010 07:51:29 PM
1896 Views
Characters: Voldemort, the Death Eaters, Harry, Dodge, Dumbledore, Skeeter & the Dursleys
- 24/11/2010 07:52:55 PM
1912 Views
Snape, Draco, Lucius, Narcissa, Bellatrix, Harry, Ms Burbage, Dumbledore, and the Dursleys.
- 24/11/2010 11:46:16 PM
2010 Views
Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:44:36 PM
2081 Views
Re: Draco, female Death Eaters, Dumbledore.
- 25/11/2010 04:53:25 PM
1959 Views
As Katie said, the husband is still around.
- 26/11/2010 10:56:30 AM
1974 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:47:43 PM
1901 Views
Re: Charity Burbage
- 25/11/2010 06:48:52 PM
1803 Views
Dudley
- 30/11/2010 03:16:25 PM
1795 Views
Agreed, but she just went overboard too far early on for it to be credible now.
- 06/12/2010 08:44:48 PM
1971 Views
Plotting, writing, early themes.
- 24/11/2010 07:53:33 PM
1881 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 24/11/2010 07:53:46 PM
822 Views
other stuff
- 24/11/2010 11:47:54 PM
1743 Views
I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 25/11/2010 04:26:58 PM
1731 Views
Re: I've always thought Rowling went overboard with the Nazi links.
- 27/11/2010 01:20:44 AM
1838 Views
Chapters 4-6: The Seven Potters, The Fallen Warrior, The Ghoul in Pyjamas *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:27:53 PM
936 Views
Characters: Harry, the Order, Hedwig, Mr & Mrs Tonks, Voldemort, etc
- 26/11/2010 07:29:48 PM
1863 Views
Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 27/11/2010 11:56:17 AM
2170 Views
Re: Harry, the twins, Mr and Mrs Tonks, Lupin, Mr and Mrs Weasley, Scrimgeour and Hermione
- 30/11/2010 02:52:12 PM
2038 Views
The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 26/11/2010 07:30:35 PM
1736 Views
Re: The Plot. The Writing. The Other Technical Things.
- 27/11/2010 11:59:36 AM
2109 Views
Yes, Dumbledore gives a very complex answer about the wand thing
- 01/12/2010 08:44:57 PM
1734 Views
Any other thoughts? *NM*
- 26/11/2010 07:30:49 PM
932 Views
Chapters 7-9: The Will of Albus Dumbledore, The Wedding, A Place to Hide
- 29/11/2010 06:39:52 PM
1716 Views
The characters: usual suspects, Scrimgeour, Doge, Krum, Luna, Xenophilius, etc.
- 29/11/2010 06:41:41 PM
1826 Views
I just realized something about Krum.
- 06/12/2010 09:00:28 PM
1786 Views
The action.
- 29/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
1708 Views
Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 02:23:51 PM
1782 Views
Re: Hermione and obliviate.
- 30/11/2010 03:24:06 PM
1840 Views
I think this was a Rowling mistake. It happens
- 01/12/2010 08:32:25 PM
1856 Views
Agreed, though a rather blatant one that someone should have caught... *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:18:58 PM
909 Views
Kreacher quoting Regulus raises an interesting point...
- 06/12/2010 08:33:02 PM
1970 Views
Er, I posted this in the wrong place. That's what I get when I try to catch up. Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
959 Views
Sorry. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 08:34:06 PM
959 Views
Please, sir, may I have some more? *NM*
- 29/11/2010 06:44:14 PM
882 Views
I love the use of Patronuses (Patroni?) as messengers.
- 30/11/2010 02:59:04 PM
1844 Views
Chapters 10-12: Kreacher's Tale, The Bribe, Magic is Might
- 01/12/2010 11:41:40 PM
1700 Views
Characters: more of the trio, Kreacher, Mundungus, RAB and Umbridge
- 01/12/2010 11:42:34 PM
1722 Views
Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 02/12/2010 09:11:21 AM
2021 Views
Re: Hermione and Ron, Sirius, Regulus, Kreacher, Lupin, Harry, Scrimgeour
- 04/12/2010 10:55:34 PM
2017 Views
Seconded. Righteous anger is more fun than whiny angst-anger. *NM*
- 06/12/2010 09:41:16 PM
897 Views
I'm not sure why we're supposed to be surprised about Scrimgeour.
- 06/12/2010 09:46:27 PM
2027 Views
Two things about Mafalda Hopkirk.
- 06/12/2010 09:54:53 PM
1803 Views
Weaving the plot, the writing, and thematic matters.
- 01/12/2010 11:43:25 PM
1844 Views
The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 09:14:21 AM
1894 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:12:29 PM
1910 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 02:35:06 PM
1637 Views
Re: The fidelius charm discussion, the invisibility cloak, the taboo, transfiguring food, and fear.
- 02/12/2010 04:16:14 PM
1924 Views
And? And? And? *NM*
- 01/12/2010 11:43:46 PM
932 Views
Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:21:42 PM
1940 Views
Re: Did we have a discussion for a previous book about how many wizarding schools there are?
- 04/12/2010 10:32:17 PM
1838 Views
Chapters 13-15: The Muggle-Born Registration Commission, The Thief, The Goblin's Revenge *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:01:25 AM
1076 Views
Characters: Ministry members, the trio, Ted, Dean, Dirk, Goblins, Phineas Nigellus
- 04/12/2010 11:07:57 AM
1823 Views
Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 04/12/2010 09:59:45 PM
2020 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:41:08 PM
1996 Views
Re: Umbridge, Mr Weasley, Percy, Phineas Nigellus, Ron and the second trio
- 06/12/2010 10:45:17 PM
1870 Views
Plotting, writing, theming.
- 04/12/2010 11:08:47 AM
1975 Views
Apparating and the fidelius charm, some good plotting and the food problem.
- 04/12/2010 10:01:16 PM
2023 Views
Anything else? *NM*
- 04/12/2010 11:10:52 AM
958 Views
It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:09:04 PM
1831 Views
Re: It may be a stretch, but with all the Nazi references, any WW2 reference is gonna catch my eye.
- 06/12/2010 10:17:42 PM
1782 Views
Chapters 16-18: Godric's Hollow, Bathilda's Secret, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore
- 06/12/2010 09:57:00 PM
1834 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Bathilda, Dumbledore and others
- 06/12/2010 09:57:52 PM
1909 Views
Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:02:13 PM
1944 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:14:26 PM
2025 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:18:15 PM
2122 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:34:15 PM
1809 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:36:18 PM
1828 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:39:58 PM
2073 Views
Re: Dumbledore, Hermione and Harry, Voldemort and Rita Skeeter.
- 06/12/2010 10:42:27 PM
1714 Views
I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:47:11 PM
1749 Views
Re: I was interpreting it as sheer sexism, but you might be right.
- 07/12/2010 08:55:54 PM
1760 Views
Lights! Camera! Action!
- 06/12/2010 09:59:52 PM
1805 Views
But wait! There's more!
- 06/12/2010 10:00:34 PM
1779 Views
Chapters 19-21: The Silver Doe, Xenophilius Lovegood, The Tale of the Three Brothers
- 08/12/2010 08:47:04 PM
1853 Views
Characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Lovegood ... and not many more. *NM*
- 08/12/2010 08:49:28 PM
985 Views
Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 12:01:57 AM
1941 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 03:04:11 PM
1974 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 08:03:05 PM
1859 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 09/12/2010 11:48:08 PM
2050 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 08:44:01 PM
1884 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:00:44 PM
1842 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:16:48 PM
1809 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 10/12/2010 09:19:38 PM
1835 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 19/12/2010 06:58:04 PM
1767 Views
Re: Snape, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Xenophilius, Luna and Dumbledore.
- 20/12/2010 09:36:17 AM
1797 Views
What was that again about Hermione not being so good at thinking on her feet?
- 09/12/2010 07:52:23 PM
1847 Views
Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 08/12/2010 08:50:53 PM
1926 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 12:04:37 AM
1829 Views
Re: Action, plot, writing, theme: the Deathly Hallows explained at last.
- 09/12/2010 03:25:53 PM
1812 Views
I don't think it works that way. They aren't "used up".
- 09/12/2010 06:52:29 PM
1784 Views
up up down down left right left right b a select start. look at me I have 99 horcruxes!
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
1527 Views
- 10/12/2010 04:19:56 AM
1527 Views
They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 06:56:46 PM
1732 Views
Re: They're not so annoying yet, now.
- 09/12/2010 11:52:02 PM
1910 Views
Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
1869 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:56:28 PM
1869 Views
Re: Plus, it totally cheapens ability and skill if you have some "magic (magic) wand".
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
1955 Views
- 10/12/2010 08:59:41 PM
1955 Views
Chapters 22-24: The Deathly Hallows, Malfoy Manor, The Wandmaker.
- 10/12/2010 09:11:32 PM
1718 Views
Characters: The Trio, the Malfoys, Dobby, a number of others. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:12:30 PM
953 Views
Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 10/12/2010 11:23:09 PM
2028 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 08:47:27 PM
1851 Views
Re: Hermione, Harry, Lupin, Greyback, Draco, Lucius, Bellatrix, Dobby, Dumbledore
- 13/12/2010 09:26:58 PM
2050 Views
On a side note about wands
- 14/12/2010 06:05:13 PM
1874 Views
Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
1891 Views
- 14/12/2010 08:59:26 PM
1891 Views
Re: Yes, I've caught myself immaturely sniggering on occasion, too.
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
1947 Views
- 14/12/2010 09:04:43 PM
1947 Views
Plot, writing, themes. *NM*
- 10/12/2010 09:13:37 PM
952 Views
An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 10/12/2010 11:24:05 PM
1754 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 01:00:38 PM
1922 Views
Re: An epiphany, Gollum, wands, the fidelius charm, grief, love and a strange blurring
- 20/12/2010 07:32:48 PM
1908 Views
Chapters 25-27: Shell Cottage, Gringotts, The Final Hiding Place
- 13/12/2010 10:03:15 PM
1748 Views
Characters *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:03:29 PM
915 Views
Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 05:16:51 PM
1894 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:04:09 PM
1886 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:19:04 PM
1946 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:37:00 PM
1803 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 14/12/2010 10:45:36 PM
1946 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 03:33:49 PM
1947 Views
Re: Harry, Fleur, Ron, Griphook, Lupin, the dragon, Bellatrix and Voldemort.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:51 PM
2138 Views
Plot, action, etc. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:02 PM
907 Views
red herring, fidelius charm information and full circle.
- 14/12/2010 05:17:11 PM
1681 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 13/12/2010 10:04:23 PM
813 Views
Film stuff
- 14/12/2010 05:17:18 PM
1776 Views
Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:05:01 PM
1756 Views
Re: Excellent point.
- 14/12/2010 10:09:53 PM
1775 Views
Sometimes Rowling's parallels are far too simplistic and unsophisticated.
- 20/12/2010 03:39:50 PM
1767 Views
Chapters 28-30: The Missing Mirror, The Lost Diadem, The Sacking of Severus Snape *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:20 PM
951 Views
Characters *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:07:31 PM
880 Views
Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 16/12/2010 11:52:46 PM
2041 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 05:16:13 PM
1882 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 20/12/2010 11:02:45 PM
1867 Views
Re: Aberforth and Dumbledore, Neville, Ginny, Luna, McGonagall, Harry, Percy, Fleur and the twins
- 26/12/2010 08:43:03 PM
1880 Views
Writing, action, plot, theme, yadda yadda yadda. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:04 PM
902 Views
red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 16/12/2010 11:53:56 PM
1861 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 05:38:46 PM
1830 Views
Re: red herrings, solutions, evil Hogwarts and the forces of good
- 20/12/2010 11:06:01 PM
2041 Views
Other things. *NM*
- 16/12/2010 01:08:25 PM
926 Views
Chapters 31-33: The Battle for Hogwarts, The Elder Wand, The Prince's Tale
- 19/12/2010 07:56:39 PM
1831 Views
Characters: far too many to mention.
- 19/12/2010 07:58:41 PM
1711 Views
Too many to mention, indeed.
- 20/12/2010 09:30:54 AM
2066 Views
The action, and plot advancement and completion.
- 19/12/2010 08:00:09 PM
1857 Views
memories, cinematic moments and parallels.
- 20/12/2010 09:32:27 AM
1630 Views
Chapters 34-36: The Forest Again, King's Cross, The Flaw in the Plan
- 20/12/2010 07:31:27 PM
1710 Views
Characters: Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, et al.
- 20/12/2010 07:32:15 PM
1744 Views
Harry, Dumbledore, Neville, the Malfoys, Molly and Voldemort
- 20/12/2010 11:28:19 PM
1882 Views
The Malfoys and Molly
- 01/01/2011 10:55:28 PM
1961 Views
Re: The Malfoys and Molly
- 02/01/2011 10:35:47 AM
1961 Views
Tying up the plot.
- 20/12/2010 07:33:00 PM
1730 Views
Narnia, blood, revenge of the downtrodden, sacrifice, plans and souls
- 20/12/2010 11:29:44 PM
1848 Views
Epilogue: the future.
- 20/12/2010 07:35:06 PM
1851 Views