There is probably a lot of truth to the "we end up turning into our parents" cliché. When I tried to get my father to watch Lord of the Rings he said, "That's just silly. I'm not going to watch something that far-fetched."
As I get older, I find myself less able to enjoy fantasy, particularly of the more fantastic variety. More and more, I see that it's just silly, escapist and rapidly becoming synonymous with a class of over-educated underachievers who use it like a drug to just drop out of the real world for long stretches of time. Since actually becoming an adult, I have started very few fantasy series and come to hold in contempt most of what I read when I was in my teens and pre-teens (e.g., Wheel of Time). Aesthetically, stylistically and substantially, these books are usually shit. Rarely, I can ignore the limitations of genre fiction and indulge in a book or two as a diversion (e.g., the Mistborn trilogy).
However, I never really treated Martin as a full-fledged "fantasy genre" author. His books had realistic political intrigue, great plot twists, and the "no character is safe" reputation. They were also, thankfully, light on the fantasy elements. By and large, the world was composed of human beings who fought one another in a conflict that resembled the Wars of the Roses and in a world that resembled England, Wales and Scotland.
This book was a bridge too far for me. The fantasy elements have been blatantly thrown in, Deus ex machina style. Not only do we have wights and dragons, but now it seems that every third character is a warg, there are magic mists that transform people into zombies, lots of poorly described fake cultures (replete with the obligatory Arabic-style Q, tons of ae's, and too many names ending in -os or -is), self-aware trees, elves (or pixies, or whatever you want to call them), dead people coming back into the story, sorceresses and lots of other stupid shit. Martin stepped across the divide between "gritty political thriller in a believable alternate world" into "elves and fairies and pixies", and quite definitively.
His style has also been grating on me. He writes like an American, using American English conventions throughout most of the book, and then throws in Anglicisms without any sort of rhyme or reason, like using "arse" instead of "ass" (but note he still writes "color", "humor" and "dolor", the last in the utterly un-English "Dolorous Edd", which would properly be "Dolourous Edd") and continues to use (ad nauseam, actually) the terrible phrase "must needs", which is a tautological phrase to begin with - if one must do something, it is already of necessity - and in any event largely obsolete.
Added to this is a plot line that was boring as all hell. I found myself skimming, and skimming, and skimming, because the book was just that boring, rolling my eyes or gagging mentally a bit at another piece of tedious idiocy, then skimming more. I kept wondering when something was going to happen. I'm still waiting.
It is my conviction that, ten years from now, publishers will point to Robert Jordan and to George Martin when they tell authors, "We're not accepting series longer than three or four books unless you have the whole thing finished. These long series have a way of getting bogged down and losing their way. Look at Jordan, look at Martin."
I now have two unfinished fantasy series that I am reading to the end just by force of inertia and a sense of, "Well, I read through all of this so I might as well as find out how it all ends now." I will not start a third. Luckily, the Jordan series will (hopefully) soon be over and I can now banish Martin from my mind for another four years or so. The TV series, of course, has been decent so far. I suspect I will lose interest in it too, though, after the first four seasons or so.
As I get older, I find myself less able to enjoy fantasy, particularly of the more fantastic variety. More and more, I see that it's just silly, escapist and rapidly becoming synonymous with a class of over-educated underachievers who use it like a drug to just drop out of the real world for long stretches of time. Since actually becoming an adult, I have started very few fantasy series and come to hold in contempt most of what I read when I was in my teens and pre-teens (e.g., Wheel of Time). Aesthetically, stylistically and substantially, these books are usually shit. Rarely, I can ignore the limitations of genre fiction and indulge in a book or two as a diversion (e.g., the Mistborn trilogy).
However, I never really treated Martin as a full-fledged "fantasy genre" author. His books had realistic political intrigue, great plot twists, and the "no character is safe" reputation. They were also, thankfully, light on the fantasy elements. By and large, the world was composed of human beings who fought one another in a conflict that resembled the Wars of the Roses and in a world that resembled England, Wales and Scotland.
This book was a bridge too far for me. The fantasy elements have been blatantly thrown in, Deus ex machina style. Not only do we have wights and dragons, but now it seems that every third character is a warg, there are magic mists that transform people into zombies, lots of poorly described fake cultures (replete with the obligatory Arabic-style Q, tons of ae's, and too many names ending in -os or -is), self-aware trees, elves (or pixies, or whatever you want to call them), dead people coming back into the story, sorceresses and lots of other stupid shit. Martin stepped across the divide between "gritty political thriller in a believable alternate world" into "elves and fairies and pixies", and quite definitively.
His style has also been grating on me. He writes like an American, using American English conventions throughout most of the book, and then throws in Anglicisms without any sort of rhyme or reason, like using "arse" instead of "ass" (but note he still writes "color", "humor" and "dolor", the last in the utterly un-English "Dolorous Edd", which would properly be "Dolourous Edd") and continues to use (ad nauseam, actually) the terrible phrase "must needs", which is a tautological phrase to begin with - if one must do something, it is already of necessity - and in any event largely obsolete.
Added to this is a plot line that was boring as all hell. I found myself skimming, and skimming, and skimming, because the book was just that boring, rolling my eyes or gagging mentally a bit at another piece of tedious idiocy, then skimming more. I kept wondering when something was going to happen. I'm still waiting.
It is my conviction that, ten years from now, publishers will point to Robert Jordan and to George Martin when they tell authors, "We're not accepting series longer than three or four books unless you have the whole thing finished. These long series have a way of getting bogged down and losing their way. Look at Jordan, look at Martin."
I now have two unfinished fantasy series that I am reading to the end just by force of inertia and a sense of, "Well, I read through all of this so I might as well as find out how it all ends now." I will not start a third. Luckily, the Jordan series will (hopefully) soon be over and I can now banish Martin from my mind for another four years or so. The TV series, of course, has been decent so far. I suspect I will lose interest in it too, though, after the first four seasons or so.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
A Dance with Dragons discussion thread
- 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM
6655 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough?
- 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM
2403 Views
It'll be tight.
- 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM
2395 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised!
- 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM
2288 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible
- 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM
2179 Views
Hero of the book?
- 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM
2508 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM*
- 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM
1267 Views
Asshole of the book?
- 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM
2387 Views
Agreed.
- 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM
2332 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM*
- 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM
1129 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark
- 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM
2107 Views
Idiot of the book.
- 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
2422 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking.
- 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM
2566 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM*
- 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM
1271 Views
YES!
- 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM
1972 Views
- 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM
1972 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler)
- 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM
2354 Views
Probably not.
- 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM
2314 Views
Re: Probably not.
- 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM
2162 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned...
- 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM
2220 Views
Something I totally missed first time through
- 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM
2545 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters...
- 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM
2261 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth.
- 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM
2330 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers)
- 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM
2254 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed.
- 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM
2263 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said
- 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM
2246 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks
- 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM
2360 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line.
- 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM
2124 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers.
- 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM
2352 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series.
- 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM
2214 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski.
- 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM
2282 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion...
- 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM
2237 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading?
- 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM
2131 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading?
- 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM
2318 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2
- 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM
2172 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS.
- 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM
2188 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe*
- 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM
2179 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts
- 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM
2333 Views
- 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM
2333 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here!
- 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM
2103 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too.
- 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM
2086 Views
I think you let him off too easily.
- 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM
2223 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened
- 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM
2176 Views
Am I the only one who really likes...
- 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM
2320 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that.
- 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM
2288 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that.
- 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM
2132 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet
- 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM
2170 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too.
- 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM
2126 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague
- 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM
2144 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones
- 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM
2200 Views
Stannis
- 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM
2121 Views
I highly doubt he's dead
- 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM
2176 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne?
- 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM
2220 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control
- 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM
2250 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up.
- 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM
2217 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world?
- 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM
2169 Views
None of them.
- 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM
2075 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM*
- 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM
1153 Views
Opinion
- 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM
2113 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant.
- 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM
1988 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic.
- 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM
2097 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this?
- 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM
2131 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods...
- 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM
2025 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods...
- 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM
2025 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that.
- 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM
2202 Views
Morality stems from god?
- 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM
2081 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly.
- 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM
2191 Views
Perhaps...
- 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM
2093 Views
Its simple...
- 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM
2106 Views
I disagree...
- 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM
2161 Views
Bullshit.
- 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM
2033 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though.
- 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM
1984 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them
- 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM
2115 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world.
- 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM
2153 Views
Some thoughts...
- 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM
2111 Views
It's not an objective morality.
- 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM
2061 Views
Its not that simple...
- 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM
2130 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion.
- 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM
2039 Views
Whats the best new POV
- 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM
2126 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread
- 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM
2257 Views
A bit.
- 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM
2216 Views
- 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM
2164 Views
- 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM
2164 Views
Re:
- 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM
2153 Views
- 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM
2153 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything
- 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM
2193 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything
- 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM
2056 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face
- 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM
2209 Views
Eh?
- 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM
2191 Views
This is complicated.
- 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM
2417 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight?
- 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM
2077 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people
- 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM
2176 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not?
- 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM
2406 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads?
- 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM
2124 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread
- 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM
2304 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai.
- 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM
2647 Views
Yup.
- 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM
1986 Views
I'm uncertain about that
- 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM
2095 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that.
- 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM
2373 Views
Am I the only one who thinks...
- 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM
2227 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that
- 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM
2293 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed.
- 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM
2082 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline?
- 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM
2136 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill?
- 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM
2046 Views

*NM*