Active Users:422 Time:16/06/2025 12:36:17 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc Send a noteboard - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM


On a related note, I really like the new character Penny. No major player of course, but really lovable, naive and sweet. I hope she sticks around for a bit and Tyrion can watch out for her. If there is one thing I dislike about the series it is how easily interesting minor characters disappear (Bronn, for example).



Tyrion is depressed and suicidal for most of this book, but her innocence serves as a counterpoint to that downward spiral (like a conscience, as you say). My guess is that she will either die or be seriously injured, which will propel Tyrion's character arc. She isn't that well-developed as a character in my opinion, so I think that is her fate, to serve the development of Tyrion's character. I am totally open to hearing arguments to the contrary though.

The truth is, Penny running into Tyrion is so utterly contrived. Westeros and Essos are giant places. The odds of her running into Tyrion are so low that it is rather unbelievable that she happens to end up exactly where he is. Literally she ends up a few dining tables away from him as opposed to any other place in the entire world. It was already coincidental enough when Jorah just happens to be at the same place that Tyrion is. But now the jousting dwarf as well? Will they run into Tysha next?

Personally I love how it points out Tyrion's hypocrisy when it comes to the sexual attraction thing. For all Tyrions moaning about never being desired by beautiful women because he is a dwarf, he sure does not seem too eager to jump in the sack with Penny, his fellow dwarf, for exactly the same reason. You know if she had been a tall blonde Lyseni he would have been all over her in a minute, no matter how childish and innocent she was.


I think you got that wrong. Tyrion respects more than just ugly women's innocence. Sansa was a beautiful maiden and rather innocent and he didn't take advantage of her even though he was ordered too. He prefers someone who actually likes him for himself(Tysha) or someone who can at least be somewhat convincing like a "whore". Though whores probably won't do it for him now and he did his best too not pull away mortified that a ugly dwarf woman was kissing him. He is not a Hypocrite in his actions at all. He has more honor than any Lannister now that his uncle Kevan is dead.
Reply to message
A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6429 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 1979 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1080 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2182 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2157 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1846 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2150 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 2052 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1977 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 966 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 2002 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2297 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2109 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 1971 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1963 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 1994 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 2003 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1145 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 1126 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2166 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2106 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 1022 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1945 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1946 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1887 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2203 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1078 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 2058 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2370 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1972 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1901 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1920 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1911 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1158 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1110 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2209 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2136 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1780 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1932 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1771 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1928 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1903 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2126 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2113 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1950 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 2030 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1869 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 2007 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 2042 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1957 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1918 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2321 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2234 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 2050 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1905 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1820 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 2037 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 2061 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1874 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1922 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1944 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 1061 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 2092 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 2044 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 1990 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 2038 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 2020 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1899 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2114 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1881 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2098 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1951 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1906 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1907 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 1998 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 2037 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1928 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 2083 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1976 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1953 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 1989 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1964 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 1996 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2112 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1862 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1869 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 1047 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 1998 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 1962 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2166 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2291 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 2072 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 1038 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1771 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2079 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 1917 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1963 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1882 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1944 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1898 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1953 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 956 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 2009 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 1034 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1912 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 1993 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1945 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 2006 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1908 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 2056 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 1983 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2083 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1908 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1967 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1865 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 1048 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1904 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1769 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1902 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1928 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1811 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 1982 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1865 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1883 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1882 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1856 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1949 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1893 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1898 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1965 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1839 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1744 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1790 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 1909 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 1934 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1859 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1856 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1908 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1840 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1857 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1722 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1788 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1906 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1866 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1949 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1084 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1749 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1165 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 2050 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 2016 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1963 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1895 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 1982 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1852 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 2002 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1784 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1969 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 1981 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 1978 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1871 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 1981 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2183 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1884 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1929 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1818 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1922 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1892 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1913 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1767 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 1033 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1798 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2194 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 1992 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1923 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1912 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2119 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 2022 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 2073 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1839 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1814 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2425 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2340 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1915 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1732 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1925 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1900 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2164 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 2041 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 1997 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 2061 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 1979 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 2009 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 2063 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 1863 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1916 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1845 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1892 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes