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I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom Send a noteboard - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM
I do disagree with the completely unsubstantiated statement you made about progress correlating to reduced crime rates. I'll believe it when I see anything credible on the subject. The trend of "progress" has typically meant that we have gotten better and more efficient at killing and torturing our fellow man. The Holocaust was terrible not only because it was mass killing based on ethnic principles but also because it was committed using the latest industrial technology. The atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima caused less damage than conventional bombing had caused in Dresden, but it was JUST ONE BOMB, which was a terrifying prospect.

So far, the belief that "progress" will make society better has proven itself false with respect to the way we treat each other. Yes, it has made our lives better in other ways - we build better homes with climate control, we get rid of diseases, we eat better, etc. It has NOT improved the way we treat each other.

Your statement about imperialism was just silly.

You said:

A possible future proof of God cannot in any way alter current morality, because at the moment, everyone is working on the basis of faith or the lack of it. Just like a future change in law cannot determine the legality of my current actions.


But that's not the situation in Martin's world. It is a world where many gods seem to exist and some seem to be actively engaged in the world.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6157 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 1704 Views
I have it! *NM* - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 921 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 1925 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 1895 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1592 Views
It'll be tight. - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1893 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1712 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 818 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 1746 Views
Hero of the book? - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2016 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 1842 Views
Re: Hero of the book? - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 1708 Views
Re: Hero of the book? - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1710 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 1714 Views
That's what I thought too. - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 1732 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 975 Views
Asshole of the book? - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 1907 Views
Agreed. - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 1854 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1689 Views
Seriously... - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1666 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1619 Views
Idiot of the book. - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 1949 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 908 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 1780 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1712 Views
She thinks both - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1621 Views
So... - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1661 Views
No, it's him. - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1659 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1012 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 962 Views
Great Ending - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 1951 Views
Really? - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 1869 Views
Re: Really? - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1550 Views
Re: Great Ending - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1671 Views
YES! - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1519 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1669 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1626 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 1865 Views
Probably not. - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 1862 Views
Re: Probably not. - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1696 Views
I think the two are mixed up. - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 1768 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1609 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 1740 Views
They didn't. - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 1787 Views
I see - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1699 Views
Didn't Jon just announced - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1670 Views
Something I totally missed first time through - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2049 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 1978 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 1782 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1627 Views
Well that brings new meaning - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1556 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 1788 Views
Agreed - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 1794 Views
There's another... - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1608 Views
There's that... - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1654 Views
It's worse than that... - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1693 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 906 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 1795 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 1728 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1648 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 1831 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1623 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 1837 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1680 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1618 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1652 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 1704 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 1738 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1675 Views
Yeah, I agree. - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1727 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1686 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1719 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 1745 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 1831 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1597 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1597 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 892 Views
I think you let him off too easily. - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 1740 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 1906 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 1999 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 1795 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 889 Views
Davos is probably my favourite - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1527 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1702 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1613 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1677 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1656 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1699 Views
That could be it. *NM* - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 795 Views
Stannis - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1657 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 1749 Views
I highly doubt he's dead - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1685 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 1753 Views
Yeah... - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1638 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 1750 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 1825 Views
Alternatively.. - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1646 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1695 Views
None of them. - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1622 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 890 Views
Opinion - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1642 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1625 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1706 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1547 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 1731 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1607 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1616 Views
Morality stems from god? - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1622 Views
Of course it does - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1612 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1689 Views
Perhaps... - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1637 Views
Its simple... - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1622 Views
I disagree... - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1711 Views
Bullshit. - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1580 Views
Re: Bullshit. - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1491 Views
Some thoughts... - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1595 Views
It's not an objective morality. - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1601 Views
Its not that simple... - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1653 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1592 Views
Well... - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1588 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1483 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1560 Views
Whats the best new POV - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1648 Views
Barristan - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1615 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1675 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 924 Views
thirded. - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1467 Views
Absolutely *NM* - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 966 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 1805 Views
A bit. - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 1768 Views
- 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1703 Views
Re: - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1617 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 1702 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1612 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1532 Views
Re: - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1714 Views
I like your theory. - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 1708 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 1707 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1623 Views
Eh? - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 1719 Views
This is complicated. - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 1922 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1631 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1664 Views
Yup. - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1563 Views
Also... - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1664 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1637 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1644 Views
Allow me - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1520 Views
thanks *NM* - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 879 Views
I thought this was pretty clear - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1540 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 1934 Views
Interesting idea. - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 1729 Views
Re: Interesting idea. - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1647 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1661 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 1850 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 1766 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 1773 Views
Okay. I suck. - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1565 Views
Let me rephrase that... - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1548 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2171 Views
Hmm - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 1911 Views
you are correct - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1625 Views
Yup. - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1492 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1675 Views
I'm uncertain about that - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1627 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 1909 Views
Where did he say that? - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 1749 Views
In interviews - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 1735 Views
A little thought about Jon... - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 1803 Views
Excellent point. - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 1718 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 1729 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 1656 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1641 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1567 Views
Jon? - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1614 Views

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