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Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM
He has to be coming back as Azhor Azhai reborn. However, I think Azhai and the Prince Who Was Promised are not the same thing; Dany is the latter and Jon the former (and they may well be two sides of the same coin, a sort of messiah/anti-messiah thing). Azhai appears to be a much darker-aspected figure. I think Jon will then forge his own version of Lightbringer by sacrificing the thing he loves the most (probably Ghost).


This is Martin we are talking about, in his world prophecy means squat, it is only 1 possible future. If prophecy is set in stone then Dany would be having the Stallion Who Mounts The World still nursing on her teats.

Martin doesn't have to do anything. I ain't saying Jon isn't coming back, I just do not know what is going to happen.
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A Dance with Dragons discussion thread Legolas - 11/07/2011 10:48:23 PM 6455 Views
Okay, first impressions. Basically spoiler-free, I suppose. ironclad - 11/07/2011 11:40:31 PM 2006 Views
I have it! *NM* fionwe1987 - 12/07/2011 05:42:27 AM 1093 Views
A general question to get the discussion started: will two more books be enough? RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 02:22:52 PM 2209 Views
A very good question *major spoilers, then* ironclad - 12/07/2011 02:55:05 PM 2182 Views
Oh, come on. If anyone can do it, Martin can. Tom - 15/07/2011 03:48:27 AM 1865 Views
It'll be tight. Werthead - 12/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 2173 Views
What does "resurrection-as-PWWP Jon" mean? Got it - Prince Who Was Promised! Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 08:59:44 PM 2075 Views
No but I think 3 will be possible Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:15:02 AM 1999 Views
what is Purple Wedding? *NM* aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:37:04 AM 977 Views
Joffrey and Margaery wedding Roland00 - 27/07/2011 04:26:04 PM 2021 Views
Hero of the book? Werthead - 12/07/2011 10:12:02 PM 2319 Views
Lord Manderly gets my vote. RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 10:41:19 PM 2134 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:43:20 PM 2000 Views
Re: Hero of the book? ClubCaved - 12/07/2011 11:50:29 PM 1984 Views
Ohh, so that was what that was about. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:08:19 PM 2020 Views
That's what I thought too. Jessie - 25/07/2011 01:48:50 AM 2019 Views
Victorian Greyjoy = Hero of the book *NM* Urza - 21/07/2011 06:20:25 AM 1158 Views
Barristan should be renamed as Ser Grandfather, you do not mess with Ser Grandfather *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:32:09 AM 1141 Views
Asshole of the book? ironclad - 12/07/2011 10:46:10 PM 2196 Views
Agreed. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:18:07 PM 2131 Views
Seconded. He'd probably make my short list of Assholes of the Series to date. *NM* RandAllThor - 12/07/2011 11:25:04 PM 1033 Views
Yeah, little doubt there. Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:09:53 PM 1971 Views
Seriously... Urza - 18/07/2011 03:07:47 AM 1970 Views
Daenerys Targaryen & lifetime achievement award to Lord Rickard Stark Cannoli - 17/08/2011 12:38:40 AM 1916 Views
Idiot of the book. Werthead - 12/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 2225 Views
lol yep, definitely *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 08:12:42 AM 1093 Views
Re: Idiot of the book. Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:42:20 AM 2082 Views
I think readers are being too hard on Quentyn, If anything I think Doran derserves more mocking. Libby - 17/07/2011 01:09:35 AM 2393 Views
Wait... no she doesn't! fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:29:52 AM 1996 Views
She thinks both Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:22:59 AM 1927 Views
So... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:18:24 PM 1949 Views
No, it's him. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:25:33 AM 1937 Views
Is there any hot sex scenes? I won't be able to read it for a while *NM* Dark Knight - 13/07/2011 02:35:49 PM 1170 Views
One or two, but not all that long ones *NM* ironclad - 13/07/2011 02:57:12 PM 1123 Views
Great Ending ClubCaved - 14/07/2011 01:21:53 AM 2227 Views
Really? ironclad - 14/07/2011 09:36:01 AM 2161 Views
Re: Really? Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:38:34 AM 1803 Views
Re: Great Ending samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:05:00 AM 1955 Views
YES! Larry - 14/07/2011 02:38:48 AM 1795 Views
Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Stephen - 16/07/2011 07:27:43 PM 1947 Views
Re: Sorry for the n00b reply, sentiments still apply Zaphod - 17/07/2011 12:45:52 AM 1927 Views
I don't know what to think... (spoiler) aragornital - 14/07/2011 08:59:39 AM 2149 Views
Probably not. Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:19:03 AM 2135 Views
Re: Probably not. aragornital - 14/07/2011 03:57:55 PM 1970 Views
I think the two are mixed up. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:23:06 PM 2050 Views
Re: I think the two are mixed up. samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:10:29 AM 1891 Views
What made least sense for me as far as that is concerned... ironclad - 14/07/2011 11:51:20 AM 2031 Views
They didn't. Werthead - 14/07/2011 11:24:53 PM 2062 Views
I see ironclad - 15/07/2011 08:28:09 AM 1983 Views
Didn't Jon just announced Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:51:07 AM 1940 Views
Something I totally missed first time through Werthead - 14/07/2011 09:40:33 AM 2343 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Cannoli - 16/07/2011 01:24:23 AM 2260 Views
Yep, that's what he said/thought A Deathwatch Guard - 17/07/2011 05:02:32 AM 2075 Views
Re: Something I totally missed first time through Jessie - 23/07/2011 04:14:38 PM 1924 Views
Well that brings new meaning Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:18 AM 1844 Views
I'm still not fully done, but about the Reek chapters... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 04:05:29 PM 2061 Views
Agreed ironclad - 14/07/2011 06:18:15 PM 2083 Views
There's another... fionwe1987 - 14/07/2011 07:16:11 PM 1893 Views
There's that... Legolas - 17/07/2011 01:12:33 AM 1946 Views
It's worse than that... fionwe1987 - 17/07/2011 01:26:50 AM 1968 Views
Torture is wrong, and those chapters kinda proved it. *NM* Roland00 - 26/07/2011 02:53:55 AM 1072 Views
GRRM completely shit the bed on Jon's arc within this book. That's the truth. Libby - 16/07/2011 12:51:08 AM 2113 Views
Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Variant - 16/07/2011 08:11:30 AM 2070 Views
Re: Having finished the book, my thoughts. (Spoilers) Zaphod - 17/07/2011 01:02:10 AM 2015 Views
Personally, I felt 'A Feast for Crows' was not only better written but more condensed. Libby - 17/07/2011 11:15:58 AM 2060 Views
Summed up like that there is no way to disagree with what you said ironclad - 17/07/2011 11:33:01 AM 2044 Views
You put words to my thoughts exactly. Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:17:09 PM 1921 Views
It should be re-titled A Jump with Sharks Tom - 17/07/2011 06:00:37 PM 2139 Views
Publishers are more interested in the bottom line. Werthead - 18/07/2011 12:31:56 AM 1907 Views
Sadly, I am likely overestimating the intelligence of the readers. Tom - 18/07/2011 03:05:12 AM 2126 Views
I felt bummed by Sanderson's new series. everynametaken - 18/07/2011 05:25:09 AM 1978 Views
I bought that book but have yet to read it. Tom - 18/07/2011 01:09:15 PM 1927 Views
Re: I bought that book but have yet to read it. Zach - 20/07/2011 06:45:46 AM 1935 Views
You might like this quote from House of Leaves by Mark Z Danielewski. heartbreak - 11/08/2011 03:42:05 PM 2031 Views
I'm afraid I have to agree with what seems to be the majority opinion... Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:35:47 PM 2062 Views
And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? Legolas - 17/07/2011 07:39:15 PM 1951 Views
Re: And on a different note entirely: is it me, or did the book need more proofreading? samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:17:41 AM 2108 Views
Yeah, I agree. Stephen - 18/07/2011 05:59:58 PM 1998 Views
The book really shows it is AFFC part 2 Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:00:07 AM 1973 Views
No doubt, much like readers would've been more forgiving of aFfC if it'd been two years after SoS. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:28:43 PM 2007 Views
Am I The Only One In Love With Arya's Chapters? *spoilers maybe* samgreenaway - 18/07/2011 02:22:00 AM 1982 Views
I enjoyed them, very solid chapters. Libby - 18/07/2011 12:50:43 PM 2021 Views
Unlike others, I won't start a separate thread to express my thoughts Larry - 19/07/2011 11:21:17 AM 2133 Views
Yeah, I wished there was a way to move them in here! ironclad - 19/07/2011 01:42:51 PM 1890 Views
Me too... but going and complaining about them seems so lame, too. Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:34:47 PM 1894 Views
I agree with Jens, good balanced review. *NM* Legolas - 19/07/2011 07:50:13 PM 1057 Views
I think you let him off too easily. Tom - 20/07/2011 04:19:07 AM 2025 Views
It might be that I expected even more of a longeur than what happened Larry - 20/07/2011 05:24:50 PM 1984 Views
Your review is a little too generous (in my opinion) Libby - 20/07/2011 06:57:45 AM 2194 Views
I find myself both depressed and let down... Zach - 20/07/2011 06:37:16 AM 2313 Views
Am I the only one who really likes... ironclad - 20/07/2011 06:04:00 PM 2135 Views
yeh, he is nice... *NM* aragornital - 20/07/2011 06:20:13 PM 1050 Views
Davos is probably my favourite Stephen - 20/07/2011 09:51:03 PM 1793 Views
I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Variant - 21/07/2011 01:15:33 AM 2107 Views
Re: I have to disagree in regards to Penny, she's a plot device and an annoying one at that. Timthetrolloc - 21/07/2011 09:33:00 AM 1938 Views
The six bodies fired by the trebuchet Stephen - 20/07/2011 10:36:16 PM 1985 Views
Yes, I was confused by that too. Legolas - 20/07/2011 10:53:35 PM 1909 Views
Probably pale mare victims. Seige warfare via plague Urza - 20/07/2011 11:23:10 PM 1963 Views
Yes, I considered that as well... Legolas - 20/07/2011 11:48:32 PM 1916 Views
Have Quentyn's two mates already been sent off a this point? ironclad - 21/07/2011 02:03:15 PM 1974 Views
That could be it. *NM* Stephen - 21/07/2011 01:43:16 PM 968 Views
It's not six bodies, it's six trebuchets throwing corpses instead of stones DomA - 27/07/2011 01:03:51 AM 2032 Views
That's how I read it as well. Six trebuchets opening up. *NM* Michael - 11/08/2011 12:19:09 PM 1044 Views
Stannis ironclad - 21/07/2011 08:43:40 AM 1935 Views
It's entirely possible Stannis was killed Tom - 21/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 2013 Views
I highly doubt he's dead A Deathwatch Guard - 21/07/2011 07:29:59 PM 1969 Views
The bluff makes the most sense: if the Boltons beat Stannis, why does he ask for Theon & Jeyne? Cannoli - 22/07/2011 12:01:30 AM 2031 Views
Yeah... Urza - 22/07/2011 12:27:53 AM 1931 Views
The letter sounded like the ravings of a psychopath loosing control DomA - 27/07/2011 02:56:21 AM 2077 Views
The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Libby - 21/07/2011 10:43:43 PM 2009 Views
Re: The Aegon Twist. Something about this doesn't add up. Werthead - 22/07/2011 05:42:13 PM 2105 Views
Alternatively.. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:13:46 PM 1945 Views
Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? Tom - 22/07/2011 04:32:39 PM 1990 Views
None of them. Werthead - 22/07/2011 06:25:19 PM 1884 Views
Is that personal opinion or based on something Martin said? *NM* Tom - 22/07/2011 06:37:57 PM 1059 Views
Opinion Werthead - 22/07/2011 07:43:16 PM 1927 Views
Regardless of whether or not they actually get involved, their existence (or not) is signficant. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:17:48 AM 1790 Views
I think there are some god's, just given different names. Same with the magic. fionwe1987 - 22/07/2011 09:24:51 PM 1922 Views
Lose the apostrophe in the subject line. Then: on what basis do you assume this? Tom - 23/07/2011 02:28:49 AM 1949 Views
You might want to stop wasting time correcting others typos. As for the gods... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 04:53:59 AM 1835 Views
You might want to stop making them. Particularly glaring ones like that. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:01:03 AM 2004 Views
A typo can't be "glaring"... fionwe1987 - 23/07/2011 08:08:51 AM 1889 Views
Sure it can. Glaring: conspicuous or obvious. Tom - 23/07/2011 03:52:57 PM 1900 Views
Morality stems from god? A Deathwatch Guard - 22/07/2011 10:47:59 PM 1900 Views
Of course it does Tom - 23/07/2011 02:26:50 AM 1876 Views
On second thought, let's address the issue directly. Tom - 23/07/2011 05:14:59 AM 1976 Views
Perhaps... A Deathwatch Guard - 24/07/2011 07:03:24 PM 1921 Views
Its simple... Urza - 24/07/2011 07:37:11 PM 1924 Views
I disagree... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:10:04 AM 1983 Views
Bullshit. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:44:41 AM 1863 Views
Re: Bullshit. fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:27:09 AM 1771 Views
The Seven probably has more power and influence than any other religion though. Werthead - 25/07/2011 07:51:59 PM 1814 Views
In Westeros, but I always got the feeling the Free Cities and other places didn't much care for them A Deathwatch Guard - 26/07/2011 10:53:45 PM 1933 Views
Westeros is the biggest coherent civilisation in the ASoIaF world. Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:56:21 AM 1954 Views
Some thoughts... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 04:54:05 AM 1880 Views
It's not an objective morality. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:41:33 AM 1875 Views
Its not that simple... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 06:21:39 AM 1933 Views
I don't disagree with most of what you said. I just reach a different conclusion. Tom - 25/07/2011 01:57:31 PM 1862 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 25/07/2011 05:02:45 PM 1883 Views
How then do you deal with the Euthyphro dilemma? Tim - 16/08/2011 01:43:18 PM 1746 Views
Re: Which gods do you think are "real" in Martin's world? aragornital - 25/07/2011 02:24:07 PM 1807 Views
Whats the best new POV Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:14:05 AM 1928 Views
Barristan Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:23:20 PM 1891 Views
Didn't Aeron "Damphair" Greyjoy also only have 2 POVs Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:56:57 PM 1969 Views
Agreed. *NM* Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:33:11 PM 1093 Views
thirded. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:16:26 PM 1768 Views
Absolutely *NM* ironclad - 29/07/2011 02:31:54 AM 1180 Views
Things you missed till they were pointed out via others or via a reread Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:23:53 AM 2073 Views
A bit. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:32:32 PM 2041 Views
Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:46:54 PM 1986 Views
Re: Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:43:43 AM 1920 Views
Martin doesn't have to do anything Roland00 - 27/07/2011 01:33:36 AM 2007 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything DomA - 27/07/2011 04:38:19 AM 1878 Views
The crone who prophesied the stallion who mounts the world saw the stallions face Roland00 - 27/07/2011 05:13:28 AM 2023 Views
Re: Martin doesn't have to do anything aragornital - 27/07/2011 08:58:55 AM 1803 Views
Re: DomA - 27/07/2011 04:27:18 AM 1988 Views
I like your theory. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:35:22 PM 2002 Views
Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:32:18 PM 2001 Views
Re: Interesting... hadn't noticed some of those either. Roland00 - 27/07/2011 02:00:42 AM 1892 Views
Eh? Elaine - 29/07/2011 04:44:17 PM 2005 Views
This is complicated. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:43:15 PM 2208 Views
Wait...a woman crowned for beauty was the victorious mystery knight? Tom - 01/08/2011 03:00:49 AM 1904 Views
It is believed the Knight of the Laughing Tree is one of two people Roland00 - 01/08/2011 04:47:21 AM 1952 Views
Yup. Werthead - 02/08/2011 12:03:26 AM 1842 Views
Also... fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:17:43 AM 1946 Views
And yet, my huge brain figures it out Elaine - 04/08/2011 04:20:06 PM 1915 Views
I've read this scene yesterday and I missed this... aragornital - 02/08/2011 07:55:35 AM 1938 Views
Allow me Elaine - 05/08/2011 02:14:15 PM 1790 Views
thanks *NM* aragornital - 07/08/2011 07:28:21 AM 1044 Views
I thought this was pretty clear HousealThor - 07/08/2011 05:18:54 PM 1820 Views
Hizdahr a Harpy? Innocent or Not? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 03:36:56 AM 2213 Views
Interesting idea. Werthead - 26/07/2011 12:25:11 PM 2019 Views
Re: Interesting idea. Jessie - 27/07/2011 04:25:02 PM 1942 Views
What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Roland00 - 26/07/2011 04:13:27 PM 1932 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? Werthead - 27/07/2011 12:49:52 AM 2138 Views
Re: What is happening with the Maesters subplot? Any new leads? DomA - 27/07/2011 03:49:18 AM 2039 Views
Re: A Dance with Dragons discussion thread jwk - 29/07/2011 01:42:57 AM 2123 Views
Okay. I suck. jwk - 29/07/2011 01:50:56 AM 1861 Views
Let me rephrase that... jwk - 29/07/2011 01:54:07 AM 1838 Views
Jon Snow is definitely Azor Ahai. Kotagg - 29/07/2011 07:31:17 PM 2445 Views
Hmm ironclad - 31/07/2011 01:52:03 PM 2367 Views
you are correct Jim - 31/07/2011 11:08:39 PM 1938 Views
Yup. Werthead - 31/07/2011 10:49:34 PM 1756 Views
But Shireen is a dragon... fionwe1987 - 01/08/2011 12:22:16 AM 1950 Views
I'm uncertain about that Larry - 01/08/2011 05:35:18 AM 1920 Views
True, but I wouldn't read too much into that. Werthead - 01/08/2011 11:42:29 PM 2186 Views
Where did he say that? fionwe1987 - 02/08/2011 07:18:39 AM 2066 Views
In interviews Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:21:28 PM 2019 Views
A little thought about Jon... aragornital - 02/08/2011 08:02:34 AM 2084 Views
Excellent point. Werthead - 02/08/2011 02:22:22 PM 2004 Views
Am I the only one who thinks... The Doctor - 09/08/2011 05:16:46 PM 2034 Views
I think Martin's gonna stick to Bran being the only one who does that ironclad - 10/08/2011 09:25:12 AM 2091 Views
It's possible, the problem is Jon's warging skill isn't all that well developed. Libby - 10/08/2011 10:53:32 PM 1887 Views
Anyone have any thoughts as to the purpose of Arya's storyline? Chas - 14/08/2011 06:28:09 PM 1941 Views
She's being trained as an assassin, so the question is who is she going to kill? Werthead - 16/08/2011 01:43:12 AM 1875 Views
Jon? Sir Tybalt - 18/08/2011 09:59:03 PM 1914 Views
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