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Heh. Joel Send a noteboard - 16/11/2010 11:55:40 PM
On Israel and Palestine: first of all, I do think you mean Camp David and not Oslo, because Oslo didn't really go into much detail on the issues that matter, whereas Camp David did. And the Palestinians really could ask for more - and were under heavy pressure to do so. The right of return has been perhaps the most difficult issue - arguably, as there are so many difficult issues - preventing peace between Israel and the Palestinians, from the very first peace negotiations in 1949 onwards. Israel offered to let 100,000 Palestinians return at Camp David. Now, you and I may agree with them that they could not seriously have gone all that much higher - at least not orders of magnitude higher, as the Palestinians wanted. But since the Arabs and the Palestinians have kept insisting on that right of return for the past sixty years, for all of them, it IS understandable that the Palestinians wanted more, and hoped to get more. Foolish, but understandable. And I repeat my basic point: you may think the Palestinians turned down the best offer they were gonna get, and I may think that, but that doesn't make it an objective fact, and it doesn't mean their insistence to carry on fighting after that makes them somehow "worse than terrorists". They were not offered "their stated goals" by a long shot, and so the question of whether or not what they were offered was enough, is a subjective call.

Perhaps I am confusing agreements, if I dig too deeply into the Israel/Palestine debate I always end up wanting a barf bag, and generally see it as a pointless yet painful exercise. I'm not convinced anything short of Israels extermination would satisfy Palestinian (and other) Mid-East terror groups, probably because so many have so often stated their dedication to just that. That also wasn't on the table, but I don't think granting everything else while withholding that is a failed negotiation, it's a failure of even trying to negotiate with blood crazed fanatics. That's why Ireland finally has peace and Palestine still doesn't; the IRA, or enough of its leaders, were finally able to realize that there are more important things that hatred (like the welfare of the people, bringing us back to the social contract yet again).
I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but that remains a common topic of conversation in America, the country whose third President once looked forward to a revolution every four years. It probably always has been and probably always will be; "hunting clubs" aside, that's the reason the Second Amendment was written and remains part of the nations highest law. It's also why I want to be very careful of what I say and what I support, not just because of a pervasive and often paranoid intelligence community, but because the issue of whether rebellion is an urgent patriotic duty remains quite relevant to many Americans. I've no interest in a rebellion, and hence no interest in encouraging one, inadvertently or otherwise. We're still a long way from being unable to fix the system from within, IMHO, and I want to avoid any risk of implying otherwise.

Yeah, it really, really, really isn't like that elsewhere. :P

I figured. Just not convinced that's a good thing. Eternal vigilance and all that. ;)
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Subversive Websites - 13/11/2010 10:49:15 PM 1494 Views
"Intended or serving to subvert, especially intended to overthrow or undermine an established govt". - 14/11/2010 01:44:14 AM 877 Views
Re: Gee, thanks dad! *NM* - 14/11/2010 01:32:32 PM 550 Views
Well, I'm hoping I simply disagree with your diction rather than your motives. - 14/11/2010 03:36:57 PM 932 Views
Re: No, you disagree with my motives. - 15/11/2010 01:06:54 AM 898 Views
The Founding Fathers of the US? - 15/11/2010 10:18:32 AM 951 Views
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God". - 15/11/2010 01:15:33 PM 979 Views
I'm sure bin Laden completely agrees - 15/11/2010 01:32:53 PM 950 Views
When you give me an example of Jefferson murdering women and children that analogy will work. - 15/11/2010 01:49:04 PM 905 Views
yes because Jefferson was a PARAGON of virtue himself - 15/11/2010 02:17:58 PM 1001 Views
I wasn't aware I'd made that statement. - 15/11/2010 02:25:27 PM 824 Views
nvm, I was going to argue but I have decided not to *NM* - 15/11/2010 07:46:42 PM 509 Views
So you are being completely subjective here? It is wrong, unless it is for a cause you support? *NM* - 15/11/2010 02:30:37 PM 429 Views
No, it's a question of precedence. - 15/11/2010 04:13:04 PM 828 Views
His analogy works very well, and you are still being subjective. - 15/11/2010 08:23:25 PM 1078 Views
The precedence is inherent in the statement; that was Jeffersons point. - 15/11/2010 09:17:01 PM 1095 Views
Re: The precedence is inherent in the statement; that was Jeffersons point. - 15/11/2010 10:52:40 PM 870 Views
I don't believe that at all. - 16/11/2010 12:08:26 AM 711 Views
Re: As I mentioned numerous times. - 16/11/2010 11:52:36 PM 975 Views
Re: As I mentioned numerous times. - 17/11/2010 01:34:29 AM 958 Views
No, its relevancy is difficult to grasp. - 16/11/2010 07:19:11 AM 1203 Views
Maybe I just have an unusual perspective. - 16/11/2010 04:15:39 PM 990 Views
I didn't know they bombed a SCHOOL!!! - 16/11/2010 04:31:24 PM 877 Views
Please. If there were any soldiers in the WTC on 911 it was coincidental. - 16/11/2010 04:40:51 PM 868 Views
perhaps, but not all important targets are military targets. - 16/11/2010 04:57:20 PM 1052 Views
Not all important targets are LEGITIMATE targets either. - 16/11/2010 05:06:11 PM 884 Views
I don't wish one, but I hate sidebars - 16/11/2010 05:09:33 PM 935 Views
All about priorities; your call. - 16/11/2010 10:33:53 PM 853 Views
That's so many hours of my life I'll never get back. - 16/11/2010 10:41:55 PM 862 Views
This your first time on the CMB? - 16/11/2010 11:18:03 PM 899 Views
No, NOW I know what's going on! - 16/11/2010 04:36:04 PM 1018 Views
Still doesn't work. - 16/11/2010 04:50:58 PM 1043 Views
Those last sentences are going way overboard. - 16/11/2010 05:08:40 PM 882 Views
Terrorism is inexcusable and indefensible, but at least there's a LOGIC to it. - 16/11/2010 05:21:15 PM 966 Views
First of all, your generalizations were misguided. - 16/11/2010 05:40:55 PM 992 Views
Of course I disagree, but that's a different and older debate. - 16/11/2010 11:10:23 PM 1156 Views
I will try to be brief. Try. - 16/11/2010 11:28:28 PM 970 Views
Heh. - 16/11/2010 11:55:40 PM 850 Views
mostly agree - 16/11/2010 11:18:14 PM 830 Views
. . . and now I'm thinking you're the one willfully misunderstanding. - 16/11/2010 05:36:15 PM 886 Views
Not willful, at least. - 17/11/2010 12:29:42 AM 837 Views
sorry - 16/11/2010 11:24:44 PM 942 Views
Well, you know what I was going on about, if that helps? *NM* - 16/11/2010 11:25:18 PM 507 Views
"Subversion" has the connotation of treason, however wrongly. - 15/11/2010 01:32:06 PM 951 Views
Re: Non-sequitur, non-sequitur, CAPS LOCK, opinion, CAPS LOCK. - 15/11/2010 10:45:41 PM 766 Views
Either my mind moves much faster than ya'lls, or ya'll are deliberately missing the point. - 16/11/2010 12:05:28 AM 977 Views
I am curious. - 16/11/2010 01:10:52 AM 828 Views
Argggh, ya got me! - 16/11/2010 05:11:41 PM 816 Views
the dictionary has -nia and -iums. - 16/11/2010 05:16:32 PM 913 Views
I prefer "millennia" but recall someone telling me that's not technically right. - 16/11/2010 05:32:34 PM 868 Views
well, in American English, they're apparantly both "correct" *NM* - 16/11/2010 06:13:40 PM 543 Views
In American English, almost anything is. - 17/11/2010 01:02:15 AM 932 Views
It is right. It's the one thing that's easy in Latin and Greek declensions. - 16/11/2010 06:33:12 PM 862 Views
You call then "neutral" over there? Interesting. *NM* - 16/11/2010 06:42:00 PM 535 Views
Neutral, neutrum, neuter, whatever. Details. *NM* - 16/11/2010 06:45:29 PM 487 Views
Do only neuter words end in -um? - 16/11/2010 06:57:39 PM 932 Views
Yes. I think so, anyway - been a good while since I had Latin. - 16/11/2010 07:12:09 PM 922 Views
Thanks. Maybe that's what I'm remembering. - 16/11/2010 07:17:05 PM 910 Views
IIRC, the number of "n"s was the issue. - 17/11/2010 01:06:24 AM 905 Views
Should definitely be two. *NM* - 17/11/2010 01:48:51 AM 448 Views
Ah, thanks. - 17/11/2010 02:08:08 AM 901 Views
Silly laptops.... - 16/11/2010 05:32:34 PM 1000 Views
- 16/11/2010 05:35:22 PM 813 Views
I'm horrible about using "conjugate" as a blanket term. - 17/11/2010 01:09:34 AM 965 Views
I'm definitely missing the point. - 16/11/2010 06:58:17 AM 905 Views
Well, hopefully we've cleared things up now. *MN* - 16/11/2010 05:30:46 PM 921 Views
I don't know if it qualifies as subversive... - 14/11/2010 02:47:34 AM 1026 Views
Re: That's not bad. - 14/11/2010 01:38:02 PM 924 Views
The Chap - 14/11/2010 01:58:27 PM 813 Views
Thanks. - 14/11/2010 03:04:49 PM 889 Views
All my subversive websites are religious. - 15/11/2010 02:26:42 AM 890 Views
Re: I'm certainly interested. - 15/11/2010 03:37:11 AM 894 Views
Well, okay then. - 15/11/2010 04:23:35 AM 957 Views
Some stuff I think is pretty neat: - 15/11/2010 07:24:41 PM 973 Views
Re: Noice, noice. - 15/11/2010 11:01:31 PM 907 Views
That first link is really good. - 15/11/2010 11:18:25 PM 1014 Views
Re: Ha! - 16/11/2010 11:55:42 PM 766 Views
Re: Also, I like your poems. *NM* - 17/11/2010 01:02:27 AM 479 Views
Re: Dude. - 20/11/2010 02:14:38 AM 974 Views
you mean besides this one? *NM* - 15/11/2010 07:55:03 PM 381 Views
Re: I AM NOT SUBVERTING NEBHEAD!! - 15/11/2010 11:02:10 PM 894 Views
Re: William Faulkner would be unhappy with my thread. - 16/11/2010 08:29:42 PM 884 Views
My work here is done. - 16/11/2010 08:34:22 PM 841 Views
Re: Yes, it's fairly obvious that you need to respond. *NM* - 16/11/2010 11:40:10 PM 501 Views
I often wish I didn't. - 17/11/2010 01:49:33 AM 794 Views
I'm calling you out on this one. - 18/11/2010 12:06:17 AM 852 Views
It's not perfect, but it's the lesser of many evils, IMHO. - 18/11/2010 01:12:43 AM 915 Views
You people with your words. - 16/11/2010 08:34:17 PM 980 Views
. - 16/11/2010 08:54:22 PM 765 Views
Re: I still say we should start a band. - 20/11/2010 02:42:48 AM 938 Views
Re: Man, that attack on Cameron is brutal. *NM* - 20/11/2010 02:47:12 AM 461 Views
Re: Awesome. - 16/11/2010 11:38:29 PM 890 Views

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