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Heh. Joel Send a noteboard - 16/11/2010 11:55:40 PM
On Israel and Palestine: first of all, I do think you mean Camp David and not Oslo, because Oslo didn't really go into much detail on the issues that matter, whereas Camp David did. And the Palestinians really could ask for more - and were under heavy pressure to do so. The right of return has been perhaps the most difficult issue - arguably, as there are so many difficult issues - preventing peace between Israel and the Palestinians, from the very first peace negotiations in 1949 onwards. Israel offered to let 100,000 Palestinians return at Camp David. Now, you and I may agree with them that they could not seriously have gone all that much higher - at least not orders of magnitude higher, as the Palestinians wanted. But since the Arabs and the Palestinians have kept insisting on that right of return for the past sixty years, for all of them, it IS understandable that the Palestinians wanted more, and hoped to get more. Foolish, but understandable. And I repeat my basic point: you may think the Palestinians turned down the best offer they were gonna get, and I may think that, but that doesn't make it an objective fact, and it doesn't mean their insistence to carry on fighting after that makes them somehow "worse than terrorists". They were not offered "their stated goals" by a long shot, and so the question of whether or not what they were offered was enough, is a subjective call.

Perhaps I am confusing agreements, if I dig too deeply into the Israel/Palestine debate I always end up wanting a barf bag, and generally see it as a pointless yet painful exercise. I'm not convinced anything short of Israels extermination would satisfy Palestinian (and other) Mid-East terror groups, probably because so many have so often stated their dedication to just that. That also wasn't on the table, but I don't think granting everything else while withholding that is a failed negotiation, it's a failure of even trying to negotiate with blood crazed fanatics. That's why Ireland finally has peace and Palestine still doesn't; the IRA, or enough of its leaders, were finally able to realize that there are more important things that hatred (like the welfare of the people, bringing us back to the social contract yet again).
I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but that remains a common topic of conversation in America, the country whose third President once looked forward to a revolution every four years. It probably always has been and probably always will be; "hunting clubs" aside, that's the reason the Second Amendment was written and remains part of the nations highest law. It's also why I want to be very careful of what I say and what I support, not just because of a pervasive and often paranoid intelligence community, but because the issue of whether rebellion is an urgent patriotic duty remains quite relevant to many Americans. I've no interest in a rebellion, and hence no interest in encouraging one, inadvertently or otherwise. We're still a long way from being unable to fix the system from within, IMHO, and I want to avoid any risk of implying otherwise.

Yeah, it really, really, really isn't like that elsewhere. :P

I figured. Just not convinced that's a good thing. Eternal vigilance and all that. ;)
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Subversive Websites - 13/11/2010 10:49:15 PM 1386 Views
"Intended or serving to subvert, especially intended to overthrow or undermine an established govt". - 14/11/2010 01:44:14 AM 769 Views
Re: Gee, thanks dad! *NM* - 14/11/2010 01:32:32 PM 512 Views
Well, I'm hoping I simply disagree with your diction rather than your motives. - 14/11/2010 03:36:57 PM 835 Views
Re: No, you disagree with my motives. - 15/11/2010 01:06:54 AM 805 Views
The Founding Fathers of the US? - 15/11/2010 10:18:32 AM 850 Views
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God". - 15/11/2010 01:15:33 PM 881 Views
I'm sure bin Laden completely agrees - 15/11/2010 01:32:53 PM 857 Views
When you give me an example of Jefferson murdering women and children that analogy will work. - 15/11/2010 01:49:04 PM 804 Views
yes because Jefferson was a PARAGON of virtue himself - 15/11/2010 02:17:58 PM 899 Views
I wasn't aware I'd made that statement. - 15/11/2010 02:25:27 PM 720 Views
nvm, I was going to argue but I have decided not to *NM* - 15/11/2010 07:46:42 PM 465 Views
So you are being completely subjective here? It is wrong, unless it is for a cause you support? *NM* - 15/11/2010 02:30:37 PM 393 Views
No, it's a question of precedence. - 15/11/2010 04:13:04 PM 741 Views
His analogy works very well, and you are still being subjective. - 15/11/2010 08:23:25 PM 978 Views
The precedence is inherent in the statement; that was Jeffersons point. - 15/11/2010 09:17:01 PM 949 Views
Re: The precedence is inherent in the statement; that was Jeffersons point. - 15/11/2010 10:52:40 PM 767 Views
I don't believe that at all. - 16/11/2010 12:08:26 AM 628 Views
Re: As I mentioned numerous times. - 16/11/2010 11:52:36 PM 868 Views
Re: As I mentioned numerous times. - 17/11/2010 01:34:29 AM 843 Views
No, its relevancy is difficult to grasp. - 16/11/2010 07:19:11 AM 1021 Views
Maybe I just have an unusual perspective. - 16/11/2010 04:15:39 PM 896 Views
I didn't know they bombed a SCHOOL!!! - 16/11/2010 04:31:24 PM 781 Views
Please. If there were any soldiers in the WTC on 911 it was coincidental. - 16/11/2010 04:40:51 PM 784 Views
perhaps, but not all important targets are military targets. - 16/11/2010 04:57:20 PM 951 Views
Not all important targets are LEGITIMATE targets either. - 16/11/2010 05:06:11 PM 777 Views
I don't wish one, but I hate sidebars - 16/11/2010 05:09:33 PM 827 Views
All about priorities; your call. - 16/11/2010 10:33:53 PM 749 Views
That's so many hours of my life I'll never get back. - 16/11/2010 10:41:55 PM 794 Views
This your first time on the CMB? - 16/11/2010 11:18:03 PM 793 Views
No, NOW I know what's going on! - 16/11/2010 04:36:04 PM 917 Views
Still doesn't work. - 16/11/2010 04:50:58 PM 948 Views
Those last sentences are going way overboard. - 16/11/2010 05:08:40 PM 775 Views
Terrorism is inexcusable and indefensible, but at least there's a LOGIC to it. - 16/11/2010 05:21:15 PM 866 Views
First of all, your generalizations were misguided. - 16/11/2010 05:40:55 PM 888 Views
Of course I disagree, but that's a different and older debate. - 16/11/2010 11:10:23 PM 1058 Views
I will try to be brief. Try. - 16/11/2010 11:28:28 PM 859 Views
Heh. - 16/11/2010 11:55:40 PM 764 Views
mostly agree - 16/11/2010 11:18:14 PM 729 Views
. . . and now I'm thinking you're the one willfully misunderstanding. - 16/11/2010 05:36:15 PM 801 Views
Not willful, at least. - 17/11/2010 12:29:42 AM 762 Views
sorry - 16/11/2010 11:24:44 PM 841 Views
Well, you know what I was going on about, if that helps? *NM* - 16/11/2010 11:25:18 PM 463 Views
"Subversion" has the connotation of treason, however wrongly. - 15/11/2010 01:32:06 PM 847 Views
Re: Non-sequitur, non-sequitur, CAPS LOCK, opinion, CAPS LOCK. - 15/11/2010 10:45:41 PM 672 Views
Either my mind moves much faster than ya'lls, or ya'll are deliberately missing the point. - 16/11/2010 12:05:28 AM 876 Views
I am curious. - 16/11/2010 01:10:52 AM 718 Views
Argggh, ya got me! - 16/11/2010 05:11:41 PM 726 Views
the dictionary has -nia and -iums. - 16/11/2010 05:16:32 PM 815 Views
I prefer "millennia" but recall someone telling me that's not technically right. - 16/11/2010 05:32:34 PM 764 Views
well, in American English, they're apparantly both "correct" *NM* - 16/11/2010 06:13:40 PM 498 Views
In American English, almost anything is. - 17/11/2010 01:02:15 AM 843 Views
It is right. It's the one thing that's easy in Latin and Greek declensions. - 16/11/2010 06:33:12 PM 771 Views
You call then "neutral" over there? Interesting. *NM* - 16/11/2010 06:42:00 PM 493 Views
Neutral, neutrum, neuter, whatever. Details. *NM* - 16/11/2010 06:45:29 PM 440 Views
Do only neuter words end in -um? - 16/11/2010 06:57:39 PM 835 Views
Yes. I think so, anyway - been a good while since I had Latin. - 16/11/2010 07:12:09 PM 826 Views
Thanks. Maybe that's what I'm remembering. - 16/11/2010 07:17:05 PM 802 Views
IIRC, the number of "n"s was the issue. - 17/11/2010 01:06:24 AM 804 Views
Should definitely be two. *NM* - 17/11/2010 01:48:51 AM 407 Views
Ah, thanks. - 17/11/2010 02:08:08 AM 807 Views
Silly laptops.... - 16/11/2010 05:32:34 PM 908 Views
- 16/11/2010 05:35:22 PM 732 Views
I'm horrible about using "conjugate" as a blanket term. - 17/11/2010 01:09:34 AM 858 Views
I'm definitely missing the point. - 16/11/2010 06:58:17 AM 824 Views
Well, hopefully we've cleared things up now. *MN* - 16/11/2010 05:30:46 PM 817 Views
I don't know if it qualifies as subversive... - 14/11/2010 02:47:34 AM 934 Views
Re: That's not bad. - 14/11/2010 01:38:02 PM 824 Views
The Chap - 14/11/2010 01:58:27 PM 694 Views
Thanks. - 14/11/2010 03:04:49 PM 796 Views
All my subversive websites are religious. - 15/11/2010 02:26:42 AM 783 Views
Re: I'm certainly interested. - 15/11/2010 03:37:11 AM 805 Views
Well, okay then. - 15/11/2010 04:23:35 AM 874 Views
Some stuff I think is pretty neat: - 15/11/2010 07:24:41 PM 882 Views
Re: Noice, noice. - 15/11/2010 11:01:31 PM 812 Views
That first link is really good. - 15/11/2010 11:18:25 PM 912 Views
Re: Ha! - 16/11/2010 11:55:42 PM 682 Views
Re: Also, I like your poems. *NM* - 17/11/2010 01:02:27 AM 436 Views
Re: Dude. - 20/11/2010 02:14:38 AM 878 Views
you mean besides this one? *NM* - 15/11/2010 07:55:03 PM 343 Views
Re: I AM NOT SUBVERTING NEBHEAD!! - 15/11/2010 11:02:10 PM 808 Views
Re: William Faulkner would be unhappy with my thread. - 16/11/2010 08:29:42 PM 778 Views
My work here is done. - 16/11/2010 08:34:22 PM 743 Views
Re: Yes, it's fairly obvious that you need to respond. *NM* - 16/11/2010 11:40:10 PM 464 Views
I often wish I didn't. - 17/11/2010 01:49:33 AM 704 Views
I'm calling you out on this one. - 18/11/2010 12:06:17 AM 760 Views
It's not perfect, but it's the lesser of many evils, IMHO. - 18/11/2010 01:12:43 AM 821 Views
You people with your words. - 16/11/2010 08:34:17 PM 891 Views
. - 16/11/2010 08:54:22 PM 677 Views
Re: I still say we should start a band. - 20/11/2010 02:42:48 AM 840 Views
Re: Man, that attack on Cameron is brutal. *NM* - 20/11/2010 02:47:12 AM 420 Views
Re: Awesome. - 16/11/2010 11:38:29 PM 807 Views

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