And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions.
Joel Send a noteboard - 11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM
No religion says, "don't give money that might be used by other people to do something that conflicts with our teachiings." Everything is about PERSONAL actions and personal responsibility.
PERSONAL actions and responsibility are precisely the problem here: The "public" healthcare law requires Catholic schools pay for an employee action Catholic doctrine forbids (use of birth control.) That is the particular issue in this case, but a Jehovahs Witness school could raise the same objection to paying for blood transfusions, too. Any religious institution could raise a valid First Amendment objection to paying for any form of healthcare that conflicts with its doctrine.
It is one thing when the entire public pays taxes to a federal government with discretion to use it for various public services, various ones of which are opposed by various sections of the public. It is an entirely different thing when federal law makes one of those sections directly responsible for financing things they oppose on religious grounds. The latter does and the former does not conflict with the First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....
The difference is great enough opposing federally funded healthcare that includes abortion is ridiculous to me, but requiring churches pay for employees violating church doctrine equally so. Again, this is why we should have created a public healthcare system that is just that instead of the travesty we created instead.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Democrats bailing on Obama - War against the Catholic Church heats up
- 09/02/2012 04:03:35 AM
1955 Views
This is not a war on Catholics, it is Obama being an idiot again.
- 09/02/2012 04:52:01 AM
977 Views
For someone who used to be a Con Law professor
- 10/02/2012 08:23:34 PM
880 Views
In general, I disagree with that view, but not in this particular case.
- 11/02/2012 02:02:42 AM
1099 Views
Also, kudos for linking to a source, and a fairly non-partisan one as well.
- 09/02/2012 01:33:07 PM
1054 Views
I am a non-partisan guy, so I only use unbiased sources!
*NM*
- 09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM
680 Views
*NM*
- 09/02/2012 04:02:50 PM
680 Views
Wanting both parties to be hit by a bus does not make one non-partisan.
- 09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM
938 Views
- 09/02/2012 10:05:28 PM
938 Views
You lost all credibility in the first line of your post.
- 09/02/2012 04:49:23 PM
993 Views
You actually think any of us has 'credibility' anymore in regards to neutrality? *NM*
- 09/02/2012 06:46:13 PM
573 Views
It's one thing to have a bias.
- 09/02/2012 07:28:51 PM
1038 Views
Wow, talk about making a supernova out of a couple hydrogen atoms.
- 09/02/2012 08:41:44 PM
837 Views
The Catholic Church wants to eliminate the birth control coverage requirement entirely.
- 10/02/2012 12:24:01 AM
1143 Views
Sounds like they just do not want Catholics directly financing; great argument for public healthcare
- 10/02/2012 02:27:36 AM
1106 Views
I'm somewhat suprised that Obama blundered this badly.
- 10/02/2012 01:40:14 AM
1850 Views
Why? Have you not been paying attention?
- 10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM
2300 Views
- 10/02/2012 02:03:43 AM
2300 Views
If I am not satisfied with Romney then my Plan B is to not vote.
- 10/02/2012 10:58:34 PM
2346 Views
How does that help anything? Except Romneys election chances, of course.
- 11/02/2012 01:08:22 AM
2151 Views
No everynametaken this is not unconsitutional according to the first ammendment
- 11/02/2012 12:14:29 AM
2165 Views
Obama doing this actually impresses me to no end.
- 10/02/2012 02:21:10 AM
2405 Views
He is already preparing to cave.
- 10/02/2012 02:42:32 AM
2379 Views
Why are you even replying to me? What you said has little meaning to what I said.
- 10/02/2012 03:33:27 AM
2165 Views
Aaaaand you can put your hat back on now: Obama has already caved.
- 10/02/2012 04:04:30 PM
2376 Views
Yup, the cave already happened.....you could have set your watch to this! *NM*
- 10/02/2012 05:00:02 PM
1785 Views
Actually, no, I could not; I expected it to take another week or two.
- 11/02/2012 01:27:31 AM
2252 Views
No, you don't have to buy it from insurers. You get it for free, just like everyone else will. *NM*
- 10/02/2012 09:55:53 PM
1915 Views
"The employees can then buy the coverage directly from an insurer."
- 11/02/2012 01:25:52 AM
2396 Views
Then that article is wrong.
- 11/02/2012 01:43:40 AM
2336 Views
Two days ago the White House said it would not back down from requiring school/hospital compliance.
- 11/02/2012 01:57:50 AM
2319 Views
So in summary... the article you posted was wrong.
- 11/02/2012 02:18:00 AM
1894 Views
To soon to tell, but if you think so feel free to demand a correction from them.
- 11/02/2012 03:12:40 AM
1099 Views
Losing the exchanges is a pretty big loss
- 11/02/2012 03:30:15 AM
1013 Views
So they refuse to cover it for the next two years, then do an about face in 2014.
- 11/02/2012 03:57:53 AM
1177 Views
If Aetna does not provide the free contraception as part of the compromise
- 11/02/2012 02:46:14 AM
872 Views
Yeah, I saw that; if Aetna does not do as Obama says by 2014 they lose out on free profits then.
- 11/02/2012 03:13:36 AM
911 Views
So Jehovah Witness employers should not have to pay for blood transfusions?
- 10/02/2012 03:57:47 AM
943 Views
Not if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
- 10/02/2012 04:20:32 PM
1120 Views
Money is not the same as speech!
- 10/02/2012 07:20:56 PM
846 Views
And actions are different from both—until others are expected to pay for ones actions.
- 11/02/2012 12:53:40 AM
1126 Views
No it isn't Joel, empirically you are dead wrong
- 10/02/2012 11:24:19 PM
1130 Views
I do not see how requiring private entities do it instead of the feds is "least restrictive way."
- 11/02/2012 12:53:22 AM
1164 Views
Catholic Charities of Sacramento Inc. v. Superior Court
- 11/02/2012 01:21:46 AM
1022 Views
"the Court found that it wasn't a religious organization, it was just a non-profit corporation."
- 11/02/2012 01:36:33 AM
904 Views
One last point
- 10/02/2012 11:35:25 PM
1205 Views
The federal government forcing private groups to facilitate without committing sin also infringes.
- 11/02/2012 01:03:30 AM
946 Views
You argument does not make sense
- 11/02/2012 01:26:57 AM
836 Views
It was an analogy, not an equivalency.
- 11/02/2012 01:48:14 AM
950 Views
Lets enhance your analogy making it closer to reality
- 11/02/2012 02:19:41 AM
1098 Views
Why could I not buy it with my own money?
- 11/02/2012 03:46:33 AM
1066 Views
Re: Why could I not buy it with my own money?
- 11/02/2012 04:17:17 AM
2276 Views
In other words, I could.
- 11/02/2012 04:21:05 AM
782 Views
You believe it can't help people since it is not single payer? *NM*
- 11/02/2012 04:31:13 AM
594 Views
Since you answered this in your other response I will just adress it there. *MN*
- 11/02/2012 05:59:37 AM
1025 Views
Some more points
- 11/02/2012 02:30:27 AM
1091 Views
Sex is not a necessity either.
- 11/02/2012 03:56:51 AM
1065 Views
LMAO due to Obama's compromise (the word compromise should have a
in it )
- 11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM
1096 Views
in it )
- 11/02/2012 12:12:57 AM
1096 Views
Obama just got two weeks of being portrayed as "anti-church" to the point even Dems complained.
- 11/02/2012 02:00:28 AM
1014 Views
The polls disagree with you.
- 11/02/2012 02:32:59 AM
955 Views
It is an interesting article, but not for the polls.
- 11/02/2012 04:18:17 AM
1024 Views
I wouldn't put too much into that poll anyway
- 11/02/2012 05:37:05 AM
1117 Views
Frankly, I hope Obamacare DOES die, just not because of the public mandate.
- 11/02/2012 07:18:04 AM
1022 Views
I haven't really heard about it outside of this post, so the negative exposure can't be too bad.
- 11/02/2012 05:56:58 PM
827 Views
There seems to be plenty of Hell raising over it, but you are in the States and I am not.
- 11/02/2012 07:55:51 PM
857 Views
I don't think it's quite the laughing matter you think it is
- 11/02/2012 12:31:23 PM
992 Views
Understood.
- 11/02/2012 07:51:14 PM
928 Views
mmm...
- 11/02/2012 08:20:26 PM
1022 Views
The man talked about during the campaign was the one elected with a mandate.
- 12/02/2012 02:28:15 AM
1161 Views
I think Obama (for once) was far more clever you give him credit for...
- 15/02/2012 05:11:10 PM
1221 Views
Surrendering on liberal issues then blaming Republicans is not just Obamas strategy, but his POLICY.
- 15/02/2012 07:23:04 PM
1098 Views

*NM*