Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really?
Tom Send a noteboard - 20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM
The word "reasons" would have been syntactically far, far better.
Also, you can't use "little" with "documents" - "few" is correct. And I guess relative to the explosion of information that we have for the past two hundred years or so, we do have few documents that are 1600 years old. But relatively speaking, we have quite a lot. In fact, there has been so much information coming out of Egypt that often these papyri were used for kindling prior to, say, 1950. That's what almost happened to the Nag Hammadi codices. Scraps of papyrus this small are common finds in Egypt, and usually they're not significant.
By pointing out that it would have "more religious authority weight" (again, couldn't you say it would be more authoritative? what's with your syntax in this response?) if it were not 300 years after the start of the Christian era, you undermine your argument, because my exact point is that it isn't authoritative because by that point in time, there were dozens of Gnostic groups operating in Egypt, and several talked openly about Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene. Dan Brown correctly cited one of their surviving papyri (though of course he then threw on layer upon layer of fictional shit on top, and served the whole steaming pile of crap to readers as the "truth", when in fact it wasn't).
Your second point undermines your argument even more than your first, however. You point out (correctly) that most people don't know much about Christian history. If that is the case, this fragment will be even more misleading to them, because as we all know, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. They will conclude (if they hear about this) that Jesus was married, that Dan Brown was right, that there is a Templar group keeping His descendants alive, and so on in that manner.
Also, you can't use "little" with "documents" - "few" is correct. And I guess relative to the explosion of information that we have for the past two hundred years or so, we do have few documents that are 1600 years old. But relatively speaking, we have quite a lot. In fact, there has been so much information coming out of Egypt that often these papyri were used for kindling prior to, say, 1950. That's what almost happened to the Nag Hammadi codices. Scraps of papyrus this small are common finds in Egypt, and usually they're not significant.
By pointing out that it would have "more religious authority weight" (again, couldn't you say it would be more authoritative? what's with your syntax in this response?) if it were not 300 years after the start of the Christian era, you undermine your argument, because my exact point is that it isn't authoritative because by that point in time, there were dozens of Gnostic groups operating in Egypt, and several talked openly about Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene. Dan Brown correctly cited one of their surviving papyri (though of course he then threw on layer upon layer of fictional shit on top, and served the whole steaming pile of crap to readers as the "truth", when in fact it wasn't).
Your second point undermines your argument even more than your first, however. You point out (correctly) that most people don't know much about Christian history. If that is the case, this fragment will be even more misleading to them, because as we all know, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. They will conclude (if they hear about this) that Jesus was married, that Dan Brown was right, that there is a Templar group keeping His descendants alive, and so on in that manner.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius
Ummaka qinnassa nīk!
*MySmiley*
So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds...
19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM
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That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM*
19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM
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What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church.
19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM
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Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride"
19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM
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What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God?
20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM
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BRIDE
20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM
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I love your last two sentences. They're a really nice description.
*NM*
20/09/2012 07:58:19 PM
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That makes sense for an eternal God, but sounds like a wife who remains a bride.
20/09/2012 08:56:07 PM
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It's "bride" in the Old Testament as well.
20/09/2012 09:48:37 PM
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The distinction is important for preserving the newlywed condition, but not for this fragment.
20/09/2012 11:21:52 PM
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Two things why it is important
20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM
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Did someone hit you over the head? "Two things why it is important"? Really?
20/09/2012 03:50:02 PM
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Something I forgot to ask you about last night: What is your take on Daniels messianic prophecy?
20/09/2012 09:21:32 PM
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I don't get that at all. "And will be no more", or "And will have nothing" is better.
20/09/2012 10:13:20 PM
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It is the King James text, which I have never heard anyone call heretical.
20/09/2012 11:15:54 PM
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The King James Bible is aesthetically pleasing but a bad translation.
21/09/2012 12:03:00 AM
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I like the NKJV because it tries to include all ambiguities.
21/09/2012 12:47:38 AM
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There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD:
20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM
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The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD.
20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM
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What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it?
20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM
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The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies
21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM
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I would buy 200 AD, of course.
21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM
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It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point.
21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM
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Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD.
22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM
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I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors.
22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM
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Not even Mark or Luke?
22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM
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Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek
22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM
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True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice.
24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM
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Some people did "lie big".
24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM
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I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter.
24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM
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I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but...
24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM
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I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though.
25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM
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The Gnostic response would be:
25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM
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That just sounds like more conspiracy allegations based on desire rather than evidence.
25/09/2012 07:15:06 AM
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The issue of evidence for Gnosticism would make this thread unnecessarily long.
25/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
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What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition?
22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM
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Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago.
22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM
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Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well
22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM
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Let's not get started on Funk
22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM
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don't these people have anything better to do?
20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM
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Clearly not.
22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM
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