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I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. Joel Send a noteboard - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM
Whoever wrote the letters supposedly written by "Paul" that made their way into the New Testament before someone said, "Hey, wait, Paul wrote in Greek a lot better than this!" went for the big guns. There is a also Gnostic Gospel of Peter, of James, of Philip...the list goes on.

Yeah, see, those seem like better choices for attempted legitimacy than the secretaries and traveling companions of the Disciples named.

However, you seem to be disregarding the entire second paragraph of what I wrote. The gospels circulated anonymously for some time, and when people started putting names on them to attribute them to someone, they based it on their understanding of who wrote the book, rather than intentionally lie to increase the book's popularity. The text was already accepted, and there was likely an oral tradition about who might have written it. The oral traditions around the four canonical gospels determined their attribution, and the same is likely true of Thomas and a few of the earlier Gnostic works.

Some of the later attributions might be the result of competition and lying, but of the canonical gospels Matthew might have gotten its name in the same way, given the late date of its attribution. The people who stuck the name on top might even have wanted to use someone else's name, but that name was already taken.

I did not disregard it, only treat it separately. Speculative ex post facto attribution is a reasonable objection to the canonical Gospels legitimacy, but certainly no argument FOR the non-canonical ones legitimacy. At that point we are dealing with "Gospels" all or most Church Fathers partly or wholly rejected IN ADDITION TO their authorship being both late and speculative in the first place. That leaves almost nothing to support them except that an age difference of a century or more can seem trivial from a distance of two millennia. However, if a Second Century manuscript looks a lot like a First Century one to our eyes, human longevity was even less then than now, and even today someone promoting a week old "Hidden Gettysburg Address" would be deservedly ridiculed into mortified silence.

It reminds me of the Hitchhikers Guide; a "hidden Gospel" cannot be accepted as authentic unless:

1) It is reliably dated to at least the early Second, if not late First, Century,

2) Its language and doctrine is consistent with Gospels that already generally recognized to be legitimate or

3) You really want to.

As I recall, Adams went to note that the last option usually involved cutting others in on the resulting profits, which may explain much of the "hidden Gospels." ;)
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So, about this silly "Jesus' wife" story making the rounds... - 19/09/2012 10:55:55 PM 1174 Views
That's right! Jesus' position on marriage was "One man, no woman." *NM* - 19/09/2012 11:05:55 PM 517 Views
What is the context? The canonical bible says Christ has a wife: The Church. - 19/09/2012 11:25:19 PM 795 Views
Oh please...don't confuse "wife" with "bride" - 19/09/2012 11:35:09 PM 761 Views
What word do the Prophets use for Israels relationship to God? - 20/09/2012 12:38:20 AM 769 Views
BRIDE - 20/09/2012 03:39:30 PM 747 Views
Two things why it is important - 20/09/2012 04:24:37 AM 745 Views
There is a very good reason no one dismissed the illegitmate gospels as illegitimate until 180 AD: - 20/09/2012 09:15:05 PM 681 Views
The Gospel of Thomas was written before 180 AD. - 20/09/2012 09:33:44 PM 693 Views
What is the oldest extant text of or reference to it? - 20/09/2012 11:11:03 PM 766 Views
The Oxyrhynchus fragments were dated to c. 200 AD, and they are copies - 21/09/2012 12:18:33 AM 664 Views
I would buy 200 AD, of course. - 21/09/2012 12:58:32 AM 745 Views
It's not about "buying" it - it's essentially proven at that point. - 21/09/2012 03:26:50 AM 706 Views
Yes; all I meant was that I never disputed a date around 200 AD. - 22/09/2012 12:25:41 AM 721 Views
I don't think any of the gospels were written by their purported authors. - 22/09/2012 03:36:32 AM 663 Views
Not even Mark or Luke? - 22/09/2012 01:21:24 PM 681 Views
Well, but everyone knew Peter didn't speak Greek - 22/09/2012 09:46:57 PM 637 Views
True, but everyone also knew Paul spoke it fluently, and he would have been an ideal choice. - 24/09/2012 06:20:22 AM 697 Views
Some people did "lie big". - 24/09/2012 02:11:58 PM 728 Views
I forgot about (or possibly repressed memories of) the Gnostics "Gospel" of Peter. - 24/09/2012 11:26:43 PM 792 Views
I'm not trying to defend Gnosticism doctrinally, but... - 24/09/2012 11:51:40 PM 760 Views
I am not relying SOLELY (or chiefly) on popularity though. - 25/09/2012 02:21:01 AM 717 Views
The Gnostic response would be: - 25/09/2012 06:01:58 AM 659 Views
What about those who postulate a mid-to-late 1st century composition? - 22/09/2012 02:21:18 AM 778 Views
Elaine Pagels ceased to be an impartial academic a long time ago. - 22/09/2012 03:41:41 AM 713 Views
Suspected as much, but wanted to see if you thought so as well - 22/09/2012 03:47:05 AM 855 Views
Let's not get started on Funk - 22/09/2012 09:48:05 PM 659 Views
So true - 22/09/2012 10:23:08 PM 764 Views
don't these people have anything better to do? - 20/09/2012 11:39:35 PM 689 Views
Clearly not. - 22/09/2012 12:27:29 AM 602 Views
then i'll escape this thread before anyone twigs - 22/09/2012 08:12:37 PM 766 Views
Too late, I have already twigged, branched and treed. - 22/09/2012 08:58:39 PM 748 Views
I know! - 21/09/2012 06:48:33 AM 870 Views
See, Tom, you made a mistake. - 22/09/2012 10:25:22 AM 730 Views

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