Active Users:997 Time:15/09/2025 10:19:39 PM
Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court: Tom Send a noteboard - 23/11/2009 02:56:19 PM
Legal:

1. Evidentiary issues may make it difficult to secure convictions for all crimes alleged, whereas a military court can take into account evidence that a civilian court cannot.
2. Procedures followed can lead to major questions regarding whether or not a trial is proper, whether for failure to properly administer Miranda rights and in a timely manner or for other reasons.

Moral:

1. The cost is exhorbitant
2. It provides the defendants a forum to criticize the US and make their jihadi statements
3. It will be a media circus regardless of media access

Reid, Padilla and Moussaoui were all, unlike KSM, arrested in the United States (Reid and Padilla upon arrival). This is a vital distinction from KSM.

You spoke, in your other response, about how great the Federal court system is at making sure terrorists don't go free and also showed you are labouring under the illusion that my understanding of procedural flaws leading to acquittal is based on watching prime time television.

If Miranda rights are not important as you claim to "know from studying terrorism law" (once again, what law school did you study this at?) then WHY did the FBI start reading Miranda rights to combatants captured in Afghanistan earlier this year?

The answer is clear. Testimonial evidence obtained prior to or without a Miranda warning will be thrown out in Federal court. While we're speaking about Reid, Padilla and Moussaoui, let's go through the trials of them:

REID

Assisted the prosecution greatly with his guilty plea and behaviour in court generally. If only every case were this easy.

PADILLA

Many of the counts against him were summarily dismissed for lack of evidence and only reinstated on appeal by prosecutors. Ultimately, he received 17 years, mostly for "aiding terrorists". The case is STILL ON APPEAL due to the harshness of the sentencing for a conspiracy crime.

MOUSSAOUI

The trial was drawn out for five years due to his refusal to plead either way to the crime. The judge refused to allow the death penalty and that issue had to be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court. Moussaoui appears to have snapped at some point, however, and started doing everything he could to incriminate himself with crazy theories, thus leading to life in prison.

With the exception of Reid's trial, these trials were expensive and damaged the fabric of the US Justice System. Military tribunals would be better. The problem that the Bush Administration had was that it didn't want to give the defendants ANY Constitutional protections. I'm sure the Obama Administration could devise a fully Constitutional system of military tribunals to keep the proceedings out of the media, preserve the ability to use evidence not available in civilian trials and keep costs down.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
Reply to message
No need to interrogate Osama bin Laden? - 20/11/2009 12:48:27 AM 1184 Views
oO uhm, what? - 20/11/2009 12:54:13 AM 665 Views
Yeah, a lot of people were fuzzy on that till this started. - 20/11/2009 09:30:39 AM 689 Views
on the other hand, we're more than willing to take them out back with a confession. - 20/11/2009 06:34:12 PM 685 Views
As it seems we will. - 24/11/2009 09:41:18 AM 664 Views
New York is now asking for $75 MILLION for the KSM trial - 20/11/2009 01:43:26 AM 618 Views
Its to salve their conscinse - 20/11/2009 01:55:08 AM 625 Views
That's exactly the problem! - 20/11/2009 01:58:37 AM 633 Views
If this trial were being held in any other country - 20/11/2009 01:56:07 AM 634 Views
It's a terrible precedent no matter how you look at it. - 20/11/2009 02:13:46 AM 658 Views
It IS a terrible precdent, hence you and others are citing it 65 years after WWII ended. - 20/11/2009 09:23:45 AM 549 Views
Spare me the bullshit. - 20/11/2009 01:57:16 PM 551 Views
I will if you will. - 20/11/2009 02:55:30 PM 673 Views
No, you won't. You never will. - 20/11/2009 06:14:30 PM 545 Views
You're putting your cart before your horse is the problem. - 23/11/2009 05:40:46 AM 633 Views
No, that's not right. You don't read very closely. - 23/11/2009 02:21:54 PM 554 Views
In this case my reading comprehension is more than adequate. - 24/11/2009 09:16:39 AM 590 Views
You don't think this is a military struggle? Wow. - 20/11/2009 02:52:26 PM 613 Views
Allow me to point out... - 20/11/2009 03:02:33 PM 581 Views
Well, Timothy McVeigh was in OUR Army. - 20/11/2009 03:55:18 PM 698 Views
That's the thing, they aren't a terrorist group - 20/11/2009 04:54:31 PM 623 Views
It would help if you would offer any argument in favour of your stance. - 20/11/2009 08:43:08 PM 564 Views
I only use the word army cause I can't think of a better one - 21/11/2009 04:32:01 AM 594 Views
Yes. "Terrorist group". - 21/11/2009 12:02:04 PM 651 Views
Yeah I guess you're right - 22/11/2009 01:34:34 AM 568 Views
Military struggles involve militaries. - 20/11/2009 03:23:14 PM 735 Views
Once again, bullshit. - 20/11/2009 06:09:31 PM 701 Views
Aaaah, I see; it's a question of who's the master, is it? - 23/11/2009 07:47:43 AM 726 Views
You're wasting your time - 23/11/2009 02:24:57 PM 598 Views
This is wrong - 20/11/2009 07:41:35 PM 596 Views
We're a long way from the shore of Tripoli. - 23/11/2009 05:59:19 AM 653 Views
Nevertheless, uniforms or a nation is not a requirement - 23/11/2009 03:09:22 PM 608 Views
Rightly or wrongly, I disagree. - 24/11/2009 08:48:25 AM 660 Views
That is bad - 21/11/2009 12:31:04 AM 585 Views
You're not going far enough, man. - 20/11/2009 11:03:08 AM 635 Views
Blah blah blah blah blah *NM* - 20/11/2009 01:57:39 PM 267 Views
I just can't imagine how they expect to get a fair trial. - 20/11/2009 03:17:28 AM 560 Views
The Code of Conduct - 20/11/2009 07:23:02 PM 674 Views
The mention of God is interesting. *NM* - 21/11/2009 05:24:14 AM 377 Views
Your little diatribe in the beginning only makes me glad... - 22/11/2009 05:32:57 AM 720 Views
I understand your "jihadist narrative" - 22/11/2009 06:36:41 PM 705 Views
No you don't - 22/11/2009 11:16:18 PM 640 Views
Oh, so you know better than Army attorneys about Miranda rights? - 22/11/2009 11:52:00 PM 676 Views
I find no mention of Miranda in that article. - 23/11/2009 08:13:05 AM 683 Views
I can explain it to you right now if you want? - 23/11/2009 08:21:48 AM 595 Views
Credible legal and moral justifications for not trying terrorists in civilian court: - 23/11/2009 02:56:19 PM 676 Views
enemy combatants and terrorists - 23/11/2009 08:03:25 PM 671 Views
They're not different because from the Third World, but because terrorists. - 24/11/2009 08:09:13 AM 799 Views
not every soldier in history has worn a uniform - 24/11/2009 11:00:34 PM 468 Views
One example would be Ethan Allen and his Green Mountain Boys - 25/11/2009 06:23:08 PM 642 Views
Just for fun, let's call them fundamentalist vigilantes. *NM* - 24/11/2009 11:12:09 PM 241 Views
Works for me. - 01/12/2009 09:12:29 AM 625 Views

Reply to Message