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I generally don't care for Fareed, but believe he's right this time. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/02/2010 05:59:00 PM
For the record, this is not a Liberal Attack on Sarah Palin.:P I've just been reading about Iran's history and came across this article. I love FZ, and I like the different pov he brings to the table.

By Fareed Zakaria

Monday, February 22, 2010

Sarah Palin has a suggestion for how Barack Obama can save his presidency. "Say he decided to declare war on Iran," she said on Fox News this month. "I think people would perhaps shift their thinking a little bit and decide, well, maybe he's tougher than we think he is today." Such talk is in the air again. Palin was picking up the idea from Daniel Pipes, a neoconservative Middle East expert who suggested a strike would reverse Obama's political fortunes. (Actually, Palin attributed the idea to Patrick Buchanan, but she obviously entirely misread Buchanan's column, which opposed Pipes's suggestion. It's getting tiresome to keep pointing out her serial gaffes, but Palin does appear to be running for president.)

The International Atomic Energy Agency warned last week of its "concerns" that the Iranian regime was moving to acquire a nuclear-weapons capability, not just nuclear energy. But this does not change the powerful calculus against a military strike, which would most likely delay the Iranian program by only a few years. And then there are the political consequences. The regime would gain support as ordinary Iranians rally around the flag. The opposition would be forced to support a government under attack from abroad. The regime would foment and fund violence from Afghanistan to Iraq and across the Persian Gulf. The price of oil would skyrocket -- which, ironically, would help Tehran pay for all these operations.

That a skyrocketing oil price would help a nation causing IAEA "concern[s]" about nuclear weapons is symptomatic of why a solely US strike would be unwise. If the world were truly "concerned" there would be sanctions in place to moot the price of oil for Irans regime; that there aren't indicates any corrective action by the US would involve us alone. And while a nuclear Iran would be really bad for the rest of the world, it wouldn't be particularly bad for America. If a few terror states nuked some of their neighbors perhaps any attempt at US deterrence might meet fewer accusations of imperialism (more likely the US would simply be criticized as harshly for INACTION as for action, but the price in dollars and blood would be lower. )
It is important to recognize the magnitude of what people like Palin are advocating. The United States is being asked to launch a military invasion of a state that poses no imminent threat to America, without sanction from any international body and with few governments willing to publicly endorse such an action. Al-Qaeda and its ilk would present it as the third American invasion of a Muslim nation in a decade, proof positive that the United States is engaged in a war of civilizations. Moderate Arab states and Muslim governments everywhere would be on the defensive. And as Washington has surely come to realize, wars unleash forces that cannot be predicted or controlled.

America is engaged in a war of civilizations, on multiple fronts, including domestic. America currently represents a moderate position between more authoritarian and democratic government models. I believe it noteworthy America is one of the few examples of the former in the developed world. What's more troubling is that most critics of government power here are more concerned with the "government" part than the "power" part, because this is supposedly a republic, thus the government is theoretically accountable to the people. To the extent it's not we're more like Saudi Arabia than we are Japan. There's a reason we even care about nuclear ambitions in countries half way around the world with no hope of striking United States territory, and reasons we don't automatically resort to gunboat diplomacy there. Mid-East Muslims aren't the only ones upset by corporate Americas abuse; they aren't even the only ones flying planes into buildings over it. While such disgusting symptoms shouldn't be ignored, perhaps we should at least consider addressing the problem on a deeper level.
An Iran with nuclear weapons would be dangerous and destabilizing, though I am not as convinced as some that it would automatically force Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey to go nuclear as well. If Israel's large nuclear arsenal has not made Egypt seek its own nukes -- even though that country has fought and lost three wars with Israel -- it is unclear to me why an Iranian bomb would.

Israel hasn't initiated any wars in its countrys existence (despite claims about the blockade prior to the Six Days War) and Egypt figured that out shortly after Jordan did; hopefully some day Syria will, too. Israel also isn't a theocracy but as long as the mullahs decide who can run for President, Iran is. While Egypt is predominantly Muslim, it's not a theocracy either, and the terrorist murders over that at the pyramids a few years ago are a good example of why Egypt should be more alarmed by a nuclear Iran than by a nuclear Israel.
The United States should use the latest IAEA report to bolster a robust containment strategy against Iran, bringing together the moderate Arab states and Israel in a tacit alliance, asking European states to go further in their actions, and pushing Russia and China to endorse sanctions. Former secretary of state James Baker suggested to me on CNN that the United States could extend its nuclear umbrella to Israel, Egypt and the Gulf states -- something that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has hinted at as well.

That's exactly what we should do, both to make a proper case for war that will unify the world when an actual invasion that would prevent or eliminate a nuclear arsenal becomes necessary (as I think it inevitably will) and to paint Russia and China into a corner where it becomes undeniable that their opposition to sanctions or any other action against rogue states with nuclear ambitions is solely based on their commercial cooperation with those ambitions. Pakistan didn't just wake up one morning with nuclear missiles Santa left under their tree; it's an open secret China provided the tech and materials (for a hefty fee, of course. ) Likewise, the only reason North Korea exists is as a satellite of China, so the suggestion a country that can't even overcome a decade of famine built intermediate range nuclear missiles without Chinese aid is absurd. In geopolitical terms the only thing that's changed since America "won" the Cold War is that the Non-Aligned States are bigger players than ever, to an increasing degree, nuclear players. It's past time the rest of the world reevaluated where their interests lie, with twisting Americas tail for the hell of it, or keeping "rogue superpowers" from arming terror proxies with nuclear weapons in the interest of plausible deniability (and profit; go, capitalism!)
At the same time, Washington should back the "Green Movement" in Iran, which ultimately holds out the greatest hope for a change in the basic orientation of Iran's foreign policy. It remains unclear how broad or well-organized this opposition movement is, but as a long-term strategy we should support groups that want a more modern and open Iran.

Here I have to disagree again. US endorsement of any Iranian opposition is the kiss of death; it would be like the Soviets endorsing a liberal American group in 1955. Any main stream credibility would be shot to hell once they became "the American faction. " Perhaps more subtle behind the scenes aid would work, but would remain dangerous, because it would still be seen as an endorsement and, if concealed, duplicitous once it came to light (mainly because it would be. ) They'd be a fifth column. In terms of the Mid-East itself the best thing would be for America to disassociate completely, removing itself as a scapegoat for all the regions domestic problems. It won't happen, at least not soon, because of economics, but without us to blame the various authoritarian regimes would have to justify their policies on merit (though history has shown they'd probably just switch to demonizing a minority opposition instead. )
Can we live with a nuclear Iran? Well, we're living with a nuclear North Korea (boxed in and contained by its neighbors). And we lived with a nuclear Soviet Union and Communist China.

Iran, we're told, is different. The country cannot be deterred by America's vast arsenal of nukes because it is run by a bunch of mystic mullahs who aren't rational, embrace death and have millenarian fantasies. But this isn't and never was an accurate description of Iran's canny (and ruthlessly pragmatic) clerical elite.

Iran is different, depending on the accuracy of Fareeds next statements, and it's unwise to underestimate the cult of personality (et alia) within an overtly religious authoritarian regime. Saddam was canny and ruthlessly pragmatic; he's still dead. Seemingly the biggest reason is that he thought he could take us and his advisors knew he'd killed his own children for disagreeing with him, so they didn't acquaint him with reality.
The most significant recent development in Iran has been the displacement of the clerical elite by the Revolutionary Guards, a military organization that is now the center of power. Clinton confirmed this when she warned of an emerging "military dictatorship" there. I'm not sure which is worse for the Iranian people: rule by nasty mullahs or by thuggish soldiers. But we know this: Military regimes are calculating. They act in ways that keep themselves in power. That instinct for self-preservation is what will make a containment strategy work.

Fareed Zakaria is editor of Newsweek International. His e-mail address is comments@fareedzakaria.com.

If, in fact, that last part is true (and insanity in my own life precludes me monitoring the situation closely) then yes, it's actually a slight improvement for precisely the reasons he says. That's why we tolerated and even assisted Musharraf so long, even supported him more rather than less as we entered the War of Terror and learned Pakistan had gone nuclear: Not because the military dictatorship was a beacon of democratic hope, but because the only alternative was unpredictably irrational religious extremists we didn't want to provide with nuclear missiles.

As unpleasant as the prospect is, the percentages favor exhausting all diplomatic options so that if/when war comes we can honestly and credibly tell our allies we did all we could to avert it, and not be forced to commit an already overtaxed US military to a solo invasion (the only way to remove nuclear bunkers short of burrowing nukes) when we've got a $12 trillion dollar debt. Meanwhile, the country that holds a vast amount of that debt will continue absorbing our production and selling nukes to rogue states. That IS a very real threat to US security, a much greater one than Irans nuclear ambitions. Bottom line is that a nuclear Iran would be a problem for a lot of people, but America isn't one of them, so until they care I don't see why we should. On the docks where my grandfather spent most of his professional life they have a saying: "Do someone a favor they didn't ask for, you get punched in the nose. " It's time America stopped doing that.
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Why Iran's dictators can be deterred - 23/02/2010 01:31:52 PM 733 Views
Not sure he showed us how they can be deterred - 23/02/2010 01:56:42 PM 285 Views
Er yeah, that's totally the argument I was going for. - 23/02/2010 02:06:52 PM 325 Views
No Palin was simply cover for the "we just have to accept Iran will get the bomb argument" - 23/02/2010 02:26:45 PM 350 Views
She wasn't cover for anything, but I like how this argument keeps going that way. - 23/02/2010 02:36:47 PM 325 Views
As I have noted it isn't conseratives that keep bring her up - 23/02/2010 03:26:11 PM 276 Views
and I tried to take her out of the argument. But here we are. - 23/02/2010 03:39:29 PM 311 Views
dealing with the repercussions of attacking another Islamic country may be our best option - 23/02/2010 04:25:47 PM 406 Views
The world needs to decide how it feels about non-proliferation. - 23/02/2010 07:11:51 PM 254 Views
yes American used the bomb so now we should let everyone else take a turn *NM* - 24/02/2010 06:22:23 AM 179 Views
It would certainly demonstrate the folly of that view. - 24/02/2010 06:49:56 AM 299 Views
well hell then why not just sel them nukes and get it over with - 24/02/2010 02:33:00 PM 297 Views
I really don't think the folly need be demonstrated more than once. - 28/02/2010 02:49:30 AM 236 Views
No I never played Civ - 28/02/2010 06:02:38 PM 314 Views
It's a classic, you should. - 28/02/2010 06:19:21 PM 361 Views
Oh. - 23/02/2010 02:07:32 PM 262 Views
Sheesh! - 23/02/2010 02:11:34 PM 460 Views
- 23/02/2010 02:16:24 PM 465 Views
- 23/02/2010 02:41:40 PM 463 Views
I think this guy lives on the moon - 23/02/2010 02:51:20 PM 395 Views
Ehm. I disagree strongly with your opinion of Mr. Zakaria. - 23/02/2010 03:23:09 PM 389 Views
Views on him tend to be polar - 23/02/2010 04:06:04 PM 439 Views
I was just talking to Lupine about how I like your posts, but I'm gonna make an exception here. - 23/02/2010 09:28:44 PM 356 Views
You'll have to link that then, I always like to read things that feed my ego - 24/02/2010 12:17:37 AM 355 Views
Oh, it was on AIM. - 24/02/2010 01:13:07 PM 419 Views
Should've been on wotmania Skype chat. - 25/02/2010 12:47:42 PM 274 Views
Here's an article in response to Zakaria's article - 23/02/2010 03:19:41 PM 385 Views
I like that article, actually. - 23/02/2010 03:58:39 PM 278 Views
Re: I like that article, actually. - 23/02/2010 04:22:27 PM 291 Views
I generally don't care for Fareed, but believe he's right this time. - 23/02/2010 05:59:00 PM 418 Views
I don't believe they can be stopped - 23/02/2010 10:37:47 PM 285 Views
One thing he forgets... - 24/02/2010 12:19:12 AM 306 Views
Iran is a thorny problem - 24/02/2010 05:38:09 AM 316 Views
I still don't believe North Korea harmless. - 24/02/2010 06:59:15 AM 416 Views
I never used the term 'harmless' - 24/02/2010 10:01:14 PM 355 Views
Fair point, sorry. - 25/02/2010 12:45:47 PM 383 Views
No worries - I was just making sure you understood my position - 25/02/2010 05:19:10 PM 278 Views
Re: No worries - I was just making sure you understood my position - 28/02/2010 02:30:26 AM 394 Views
Re: No worries - I was just making sure you understood my position - 01/03/2010 03:53:58 PM 295 Views
A carrot without a stick is just a free carrot. - 02/03/2010 08:01:23 AM 407 Views
It's not a carrot/stick thing at all - 02/03/2010 04:29:00 PM 385 Views
Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but it doesn't seem that way. - 05/03/2010 01:02:57 AM 424 Views
They can hit Tokyo - 25/02/2010 06:10:44 PM 311 Views
So? - 25/02/2010 07:01:37 PM 457 Views
I think you are grossly overestimating our border security - 25/02/2010 08:03:13 PM 247 Views
Well, I KNOW you're ignorant about a lot of things and this shows it. - 25/02/2010 08:56:45 PM 293 Views
Yes you are the Great Cold War Warrior of the chairforce - 28/02/2010 06:44:31 PM 358 Views
Oh I'm sorry - so you're not so much ignorant as idiot. - 01/03/2010 03:48:32 PM 241 Views
Is that what taught you in chairforce school loser boy? - 01/03/2010 04:33:53 PM 339 Views
Nope, it was the internet actually - 02/03/2010 04:31:36 PM 270 Views
Israel does not have the military capability to destroy or significantly damage Iran's nuclear sites - 24/02/2010 12:33:00 PM 397 Views
I agree, even if for different reasons. - 24/02/2010 01:01:00 PM 249 Views
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about - and it shows to anyone who does - 24/02/2010 10:33:29 PM 350 Views
But... - 25/02/2010 12:44:15 AM 390 Views
Re: But... - 25/02/2010 05:52:07 PM 476 Views
Here's a few questions for you then. - 25/02/2010 02:55:00 AM 412 Views
You're not asking questions you're trying to support your point - 25/02/2010 06:49:28 PM 366 Views
I think this ties in well with this article - 25/02/2010 09:56:04 AM 307 Views
That's actually a really good idea - 25/02/2010 07:05:37 PM 245 Views

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