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Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but it doesn't seem that way. Joel Send a noteboard - 05/03/2010 01:02:57 AM
We aren't talking about changes from the top-down here, but from the bottom up.

Protestors are more vigourous and are often more successful. Technology, despite the governments fumble-handed attempts to restrict and control it - is spinning beyond their ability to stop.

You're not wrong in that the government is still backwards, but the PEOPLE are pushing against it now 'kicking against the man' more and more - and more and more they're getting away with it. This is simply a matter of the people deciding that they've had quite enough. They KNOW what goes on in the rest of the world now, and they're tired of their BS government. It's becoming grassroots.

What's more, the government is starting to answer. Yes, they still imprison folks but some of these protests are now succeeding. The judiciary are going, "You're right, that guy is corrupt" and then jailing party officials. It's small still, but it would have been completely unheard of thirty years ago.

No one is ever going to 'make China change.' Genghis Khan couldn't do it even after he conquered the place. All the carrots and sticks in the world are just going to bounce off that millennial culture.

They have to do it themselves. It will be slow - but the Chinese culture always has been glacial in its pace so that shouldn't surprise anyone. But they are doing it - and done that way, from within, it'll stick.

It's hard to be sure as closed as Chinese society has always been, even before the geopolitical aspect that played right into the governments traditional attitudes, but I hear a great deal from Chinese citizens angry at "US imperialism" and virtually nothing about their own governments imperialism within its borders or the region, let alone globally.

From the perspective of Western policy though we have seen and continue to see a carrot without a stick. The whole premise is that showing China democracys benefits will induce them to embrace it, applying it to individual citizens rather than the government doesn't change that approach. And I frankly do not see it; the government is too successful at promoting skepticism of outside information sources when they don't stop them entirely (hence encouragement of democracy is more often viewed as imperialist propaganda than as sincere. ) This actually dovetails nicely with snoops link below; without widespread WiFi and satellite links it's quite simple for the government to control information access online, easier than with radio since fiberoptics and telephone lines aren't exactly broadcasting. Google et alia have had their problems with Chinese authorities, too, y'know.

The conceit is that access is predicated on exchange, that in order to share the benefits of Western or global society Chinas government must adopt the policies that make them possible, that access to Western markets will invariably create access to Chinese ones, with all that flows from that. The problem is that Western policy makers are so fixated on that means to the end of reforming China that they'll do anything and everything to enable it--including providing the benefits of democracy directly, themselves, instead of China producing them as the dividends of democracy. Why should China allow and encourage large scale private enterprise when America offers up capital and manufacturing, even when it means importing human quality food and toothpaste laced with poison (both of which have occurred)? Why should it be any less belligerent when capture of US military aircraft in international airspace results in our "Cowboy" President BEGGING for the return of plane and crews (which only happened after the former was disassembled and the latter debriefed)? What does China, as a government or people, have to gain from democracy...? That's the question there as much as on the CMB.

China really shouldn't be singled out; it's symptomatic of a deeper problem with "free" trade falsely so called, as an end run around regs in the developing world that were only won at the cost of lives, but outside of Burma and the African dictatorships China's probably the worst offender, and the sheer volume of their impact in every arena only magnifies the problem; their stated goal of displacing the US in every arena punctuates their unique "contributions. "
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I like that article, actually. - 23/02/2010 03:58:39 PM 353 Views
Re: I like that article, actually. - 23/02/2010 04:22:27 PM 355 Views
I don't believe they can be stopped - 23/02/2010 10:37:47 PM 358 Views
One thing he forgets... - 24/02/2010 12:19:12 AM 382 Views
Iran is a thorny problem - 24/02/2010 05:38:09 AM 388 Views
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Fair point, sorry. - 25/02/2010 12:45:47 PM 458 Views
No worries - I was just making sure you understood my position - 25/02/2010 05:19:10 PM 355 Views
Re: No worries - I was just making sure you understood my position - 28/02/2010 02:30:26 AM 486 Views
Re: No worries - I was just making sure you understood my position - 01/03/2010 03:53:58 PM 366 Views
A carrot without a stick is just a free carrot. - 02/03/2010 08:01:23 AM 472 Views
It's not a carrot/stick thing at all - 02/03/2010 04:29:00 PM 459 Views
Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but it doesn't seem that way. - 05/03/2010 01:02:57 AM 495 Views
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So? - 25/02/2010 07:01:37 PM 531 Views
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I agree, even if for different reasons. - 24/02/2010 01:01:00 PM 322 Views
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about - and it shows to anyone who does - 24/02/2010 10:33:29 PM 420 Views
But... - 25/02/2010 12:44:15 AM 457 Views
Re: But... - 25/02/2010 05:52:07 PM 553 Views
Here's a few questions for you then. - 25/02/2010 02:55:00 AM 496 Views
You're not asking questions you're trying to support your point - 25/02/2010 06:49:28 PM 437 Views
I think this ties in well with this article - 25/02/2010 09:56:04 AM 380 Views
That's actually a really good idea - 25/02/2010 07:05:37 PM 317 Views

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