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Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory Isaac Send a noteboard - 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM

They shouldn't expect to get their way, but they also shouldn't be bypassed if they take the proper steps. If she truly approached it by trying to change the rule in the correct manner (not simply showing up and causing a fuss or whatever), the school should have dealt with it in the right way as well.


Going through the right channels displays maturity, but doesn't get you want you want automatically nor should it. We don't reward people for followings the rules. Nor do we change rules just because the person who asked did so in the proper fashion. The school did deal with it in the right way, they said 'no', she contacted the ACLU.

I can write up an entirely legitimate and reasonable request, filed courteously through the proper chain, requesting I be allowed to wear a kilt to an event. That doesn't mean they should be required to say yes, if I then follow up with threat of legal action, I leave them little choice but to expend vast efforts and funds - funds paid for by the citizens - to fight the effort, win or lose, or to cave and permit me to wear a kilt. Personally, if faced with such an ultimatum, I would choose to cancel the whole affair as a matter of principle.

Canceling the prom because they don't want to say, "No, I'm sorry, those are the rules," is avoidant and wrong to all the other kids as well. It's like... passive-agressive school. I am all for avoiding the disruption of education on some of these bigger issues, but still, it wasn't handled well, imo.


Well, that's not really the right way to look at it, the cancellation took place once the ACLU showed up and threatened them. When dealing with the ACLU, you know they will fight till the last breath, this left them 3 options

1) Fight it out... God alone knows how much money and effort they would spend while slugging it through the courts, win or lose, while drawing attention to themselves. This would be a horrible waste of money and demonize them in the yes of much of the country.

2) Surrender, let her wear the tux and attend arm in arm with her date. In doing this they anger much of the local population, who votes them into office and votes for school levies. It would make them look weak and invite disobedience by students and teachers. In all likelihood if they surrendered they would be replaced, possibly before the next election, by people with even more hard-line views.

3) Cancel the event. You can't fight, you can't surrender, so you deny combat. Ideally everything settles down and either the issue goes away or next year you cancel it again until the locals either say 'fine, go ahead and permit open gays' or students stop trying. It's not the cowardly approach, just the pragmatic one. Options 1 and 2 are lose-lose.

Under the circumstances, I don't see they had any other choices, I'm not sure how they could have handled it better, realistically the local voters set the level of 'tolerance' and they have to operate inside it.

Let's keep in mind they this is all about symbolic victories, the school board can't be seen to lose, the girl wants a symbolic victory. She could attend in a dress separately and meet her date there, dance, etc. The ACLU even reports that when they contacted the school it said district officials told McMillen she and her girlfriend wouldn't be allowed to arrive together, that she would not be allowed to wear a tuxedo, and that she and her girlfriend might be asked to leave if their presence made any other students "uncomfortable."

Now in diplo speak that's "Go ahead an show up, just don't walk in the door arm in arm, don't wear a tux, and don't display any levels of affection (which are probably alreayd against the rules) that will have to makes us take action"

So what is she and the ACLU fighting for? A symbolic victory that the schoolboard can not give her instead of a practical one that they appear to have offered.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
This message last edited by Isaac on 13/03/2010 at 10:22:08 PM
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Mississippi High School cancels Prom after Lesbian Student Wanted to Bring a Girl as Her Date - 11/03/2010 11:56:10 PM 1961 Views
Seriously, wtf is wrong with the US? *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:08:32 AM 349 Views
Not ALL of the US. There were same-sex couples at my prom. *NM* - 12/03/2010 12:26:24 AM 395 Views
Yeah, don't worry, I know it's not like that everywhere. - 12/03/2010 09:15:43 AM 789 Views
This is the problem with liberals and their crusades like gay marriage. - 12/03/2010 12:50:12 AM 1048 Views
Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 02:03:32 AM 874 Views
Re: Just a few things that I know you'll proabably disagree with. - 12/03/2010 10:12:04 PM 881 Views
Ummmm.... no. - 12/03/2010 11:02:50 PM 898 Views
i totally agree 100% with what you're saying - 12/03/2010 02:33:55 AM 1003 Views
What??? - 12/03/2010 02:53:13 AM 974 Views
Actually... - 12/03/2010 04:56:03 AM 970 Views
Oh, it is definitely self-defense. - 12/03/2010 05:52:50 AM 884 Views
That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 06:10:27 AM 943 Views
Er... - 12/03/2010 06:45:05 AM 813 Views
I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 01:39:19 PM 896 Views
... - 12/03/2010 02:05:54 PM 821 Views
I think you mean "I'm afraid that again that analogy is not apt." - 12/03/2010 02:45:23 PM 834 Views
That's right, I forgot to add that. - 12/03/2010 03:23:25 PM 877 Views
It's a rather key piece of any attempted analogy, wouldn't you say? - 12/03/2010 03:45:15 PM 777 Views
Again, you're right. - 12/03/2010 03:59:13 PM 753 Views
Yup. - 12/03/2010 04:02:26 PM 861 Views
Not really. Her point is that they should both be illegal. - 12/03/2010 07:01:47 PM 784 Views
Re: That analogy is not apt. - 12/03/2010 02:06:51 PM 836 Views
And when the school refused to change it's policy... - 12/03/2010 03:25:03 PM 779 Views
Absurd. - 12/03/2010 08:27:19 PM 857 Views
The rules were unjust. - 13/03/2010 05:09:59 AM 882 Views
Wow, talk about proving my point! - 12/03/2010 11:04:34 PM 997 Views
So hang on. - 13/03/2010 05:04:58 AM 902 Views
It's not that I'm surprised they disagree. It's that they're Wrong. - 12/03/2010 06:39:30 AM 858 Views
It is a great case of Selective Outrage, IMHO - 12/03/2010 03:10:01 AM 909 Views
Maybe. - 12/03/2010 06:34:42 AM 900 Views
"ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 12:31:14 PM 821 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 01:53:39 PM 855 Views
Re: "ACLU Defends Nazi's Right to Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" - 12/03/2010 03:04:43 PM 809 Views
As is often the case, there seems to be a fair amount of assumption going on here. - 12/03/2010 02:22:48 PM 814 Views
Just giving the benefit of the doubt... - 12/03/2010 02:57:23 PM 875 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 07:23:54 PM 840 Views
Re: "Pursuing their ideology" - 12/03/2010 08:17:25 PM 840 Views
That wasn't the impression I was under - 12/03/2010 11:23:08 PM 723 Views
Re: That wasn't the impression I was under - 13/03/2010 12:09:08 AM 884 Views
Pshhh there's a difference between "wear SOME clothes" and "wear a tux" - 15/03/2010 01:40:37 AM 774 Views
Your comments are inconsistent - 15/03/2010 02:09:43 AM 836 Views
I think you're optimistic about what her chances would've been - 12/03/2010 07:13:38 PM 831 Views
For the record... - 12/03/2010 06:48:25 AM 838 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 01:04:33 PM 879 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 07:08:06 PM 898 Views
Re: For the record... - 12/03/2010 08:08:42 PM 866 Views
Don't you think you're sensationalizing this just a bit? - 12/03/2010 05:42:21 AM 831 Views
Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 01:46:23 PM 832 Views
Re: Actually it is that reductionist - 12/03/2010 07:25:41 PM 917 Views
I have issues with both sides, I think - 12/03/2010 02:44:06 PM 797 Views
When I was in high school, my girlfriend and I formulated a petition so we'd be able to attend - 12/03/2010 07:55:33 PM 963 Views
Another thing I think people should remember - - 12/03/2010 07:59:43 PM 944 Views
One point though - 12/03/2010 08:40:32 PM 869 Views
Re: One point though - 12/03/2010 08:46:30 PM 935 Views
My point was that it was a hollow reassurance - 12/03/2010 09:35:46 PM 764 Views
yah, but honestly, is a tux really going to upset anyone that much? - 13/03/2010 04:50:08 PM 728 Views
Just because it wouldn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother anyone else - 13/03/2010 06:38:03 PM 797 Views
It does - 13/03/2010 07:35:39 PM 777 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 07:48:35 PM 722 Views
I typically agree with you - 13/03/2010 09:19:27 PM 838 Views
Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 13/03/2010 10:17:27 PM 775 Views
yah, but at this point, how much of it is the girl? - 13/03/2010 10:24:57 PM 748 Views
Is she a child or an adult? IIRC she's 18 - 13/03/2010 11:33:39 PM 800 Views
No, it should not - 14/03/2010 12:33:56 AM 991 Views
Re: No, it should not - 14/03/2010 01:16:33 AM 902 Views
I understood that. You explained it well. *NM* - 14/03/2010 03:28:10 AM 370 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 01:49:34 AM 829 Views
Re: Following proper form shouldn't guarantee victory - 15/03/2010 02:44:17 AM 723 Views
This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 04:27:43 AM 858 Views
Re: This is definitely true - 15/03/2010 05:18:11 AM 1106 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 08:18:03 PM 820 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 09:30:21 PM 735 Views
Re: It does - 13/03/2010 10:11:21 PM 935 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:11:11 AM 830 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 03:42:06 AM 864 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 12:47:47 AM 881 Views
Re: It does - 14/03/2010 04:09:18 AM 849 Views
You make good points. *NM* - 15/03/2010 08:08:37 PM 338 Views
Ah, yes, "the rules." - 15/03/2010 01:47:31 AM 767 Views
Read my replies to Nossy and Ghavrel - 15/03/2010 05:01:29 AM 841 Views
Slippery slope arguments are stupid. - 14/03/2010 12:43:00 AM 718 Views
So is likening everythng back to the Civil Rights Movement - 14/03/2010 04:17:54 AM 875 Views
"Dress codes exists for a reason?" - 15/03/2010 01:43:36 AM 774 Views
They do - 15/03/2010 05:08:17 AM 903 Views
Damn. Poor liberals, all revved up with nothing to fight for. *NM* - 12/03/2010 10:16:12 PM 521 Views
So... they were ready to fight something bad, and nothing bad happened - 12/03/2010 11:30:02 PM 716 Views
Teenaged lesbians - 15/03/2010 06:55:12 AM 833 Views

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