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If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM

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A draft opinion has never been leaked before in the history of the court.

Obviously the intent was intimidation - whoever leaked it knew that they could not convince any of the Justices to change their stance so they attempted to get the abortion lobby to do it for them. I think, as Alito wrote in his draft, the Justices won't pay much mind to public opinion, and will do what they believe to be their legal duty.

I also think, however, that this sets a bad precedent. Like the impeachments of Trump guaranteed that every future Democratic president for the foreseeable future will be impeached regardless of the merits of the impeachment, this too means that if there is ever a decision that would come down like Obergefell or Sebelius that would piss off the right, draft decisions will get leaked.

It's a shitty day for the Supreme Court, for judicial ethics (I don't believe that a clerk sent this out without a blessing from one of the three), and for judicial independence.

My only hope is that the Justices refuse to back down to the pressure of the abortion lobby and the media and double down on this decision to show they will not be intimidated into changing their minds or forsaking their legal duty.


I see the distinction of

1) Court is going to have a ruling for, against, mixed
2) The actual deliberations of the court with the mixture of justices and why they are going to do it
3) A rough draft opinion and who is tentatively voting for that opinion

I see the distinction between 2 and 3 is a difference without a real difference, unless one wants to go analytical here. 2 happened with Dred Scott as well as other court cases of that time and after. It is nothing new under the sun, but hey some semblance of things do change if you want to rest your hat on that specific hat rack.

———

As for intent, no I do not see it as obvious and there are a dozen different theories out there and it may never be known. Who stands to benefit is precisely why the court is not just balls and strikes but is a political branch as you pointed out in Sebilius court case.

Likewise while not Obergefell but the earlier 1980s case, Bowers v. Hardwick which was about Gay Sodomy, it was 5-4 decision where the states can make Sodomy illegal. Justice Powell one of the 5 judges said at the time he did not know any gay people, he also asked his clerks, one of the clerks was queer and kept his mouth shut for he was closeted, and 4 years after this case was final Powell said he regretted his decision.

But the court is sacrosanct don’t you know! Except I disagree and stop using the word sacred / sacer / sacro for a man dirties the word when one says such nonsense. The court is not inviolable just like history itself is not innocent but full of mess and complications.

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1585 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 970 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 758 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 906 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 716 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 731 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 707 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 735 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 778 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 744 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 739 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 732 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 925 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 735 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 774 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 800 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 796 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 767 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 741 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 876 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 793 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 781 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 758 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 716 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 707 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 718 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 791 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 740 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 673 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 780 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 759 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 759 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 712 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 872 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 701 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 693 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 800 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 747 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 691 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 743 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 670 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 731 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 704 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 688 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 668 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 691 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 713 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 691 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 698 Views
There is no goalpost shifting - 17/05/2022 12:48:18 PM 758 Views
Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 733 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 714 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 747 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 682 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 684 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 692 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 747 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 688 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 713 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 715 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 721 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 683 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 691 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 674 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 864 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 737 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 729 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 720 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 680 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 714 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 672 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 742 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 949 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 677 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 746 Views
States rights do not trump individual rights - 13/05/2022 05:12:13 PM 701 Views
States rights regulate individual rights - 13/05/2022 07:42:52 PM 732 Views
I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 694 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 809 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 775 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 812 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 617 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 677 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 682 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 629 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 672 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 679 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 673 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 766 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 683 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 787 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 898 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 426 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 726 Views
Let me join in. Yes. Legolas is good people. *NM* - 10/05/2022 02:52:37 PM 370 Views
History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 737 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 821 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 690 Views

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