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If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM

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A draft opinion has never been leaked before in the history of the court.

Obviously the intent was intimidation - whoever leaked it knew that they could not convince any of the Justices to change their stance so they attempted to get the abortion lobby to do it for them. I think, as Alito wrote in his draft, the Justices won't pay much mind to public opinion, and will do what they believe to be their legal duty.

I also think, however, that this sets a bad precedent. Like the impeachments of Trump guaranteed that every future Democratic president for the foreseeable future will be impeached regardless of the merits of the impeachment, this too means that if there is ever a decision that would come down like Obergefell or Sebelius that would piss off the right, draft decisions will get leaked.

It's a shitty day for the Supreme Court, for judicial ethics (I don't believe that a clerk sent this out without a blessing from one of the three), and for judicial independence.

My only hope is that the Justices refuse to back down to the pressure of the abortion lobby and the media and double down on this decision to show they will not be intimidated into changing their minds or forsaking their legal duty.


I see the distinction of

1) Court is going to have a ruling for, against, mixed
2) The actual deliberations of the court with the mixture of justices and why they are going to do it
3) A rough draft opinion and who is tentatively voting for that opinion

I see the distinction between 2 and 3 is a difference without a real difference, unless one wants to go analytical here. 2 happened with Dred Scott as well as other court cases of that time and after. It is nothing new under the sun, but hey some semblance of things do change if you want to rest your hat on that specific hat rack.

———

As for intent, no I do not see it as obvious and there are a dozen different theories out there and it may never be known. Who stands to benefit is precisely why the court is not just balls and strikes but is a political branch as you pointed out in Sebilius court case.

Likewise while not Obergefell but the earlier 1980s case, Bowers v. Hardwick which was about Gay Sodomy, it was 5-4 decision where the states can make Sodomy illegal. Justice Powell one of the 5 judges said at the time he did not know any gay people, he also asked his clerks, one of the clerks was queer and kept his mouth shut for he was closeted, and 4 years after this case was final Powell said he regretted his decision.

But the court is sacrosanct don’t you know! Except I disagree and stop using the word sacred / sacer / sacro for a man dirties the word when one says such nonsense. The court is not inviolable just like history itself is not innocent but full of mess and complications.

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1361 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 593 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 520 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 559 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 482 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 496 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 471 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 509 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 526 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 524 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 494 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 496 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 555 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 500 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 554 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 507 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 545 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 533 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 486 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 522 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 550 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 522 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 529 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 516 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 483 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 488 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 560 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 522 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 470 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 515 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 527 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 526 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 469 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 532 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 484 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 457 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 452 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 504 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 452 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 500 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 474 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 484 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 486 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 488 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 475 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 466 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 484 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 480 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 471 Views
There is no goalpost shifting - 17/05/2022 12:48:18 PM 506 Views
Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 506 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 489 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 513 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 451 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 450 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 461 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 522 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 450 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 501 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 476 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 498 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 450 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 472 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 472 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 534 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 506 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 497 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 477 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 447 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 491 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 450 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 496 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 706 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 476 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 508 Views
States rights do not trump individual rights - 13/05/2022 05:12:13 PM 477 Views
States rights regulate individual rights - 13/05/2022 07:42:52 PM 512 Views
I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 502 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 509 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 486 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 523 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 430 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 471 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 485 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 455 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 471 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 485 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 478 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 534 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 453 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 544 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 516 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 328 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 502 Views
Let me join in. Yes. Legolas is good people. *NM* - 10/05/2022 02:52:37 PM 282 Views
History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 508 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 602 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 510 Views

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