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If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM

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A draft opinion has never been leaked before in the history of the court.

Obviously the intent was intimidation - whoever leaked it knew that they could not convince any of the Justices to change their stance so they attempted to get the abortion lobby to do it for them. I think, as Alito wrote in his draft, the Justices won't pay much mind to public opinion, and will do what they believe to be their legal duty.

I also think, however, that this sets a bad precedent. Like the impeachments of Trump guaranteed that every future Democratic president for the foreseeable future will be impeached regardless of the merits of the impeachment, this too means that if there is ever a decision that would come down like Obergefell or Sebelius that would piss off the right, draft decisions will get leaked.

It's a shitty day for the Supreme Court, for judicial ethics (I don't believe that a clerk sent this out without a blessing from one of the three), and for judicial independence.

My only hope is that the Justices refuse to back down to the pressure of the abortion lobby and the media and double down on this decision to show they will not be intimidated into changing their minds or forsaking their legal duty.


I see the distinction of

1) Court is going to have a ruling for, against, mixed
2) The actual deliberations of the court with the mixture of justices and why they are going to do it
3) A rough draft opinion and who is tentatively voting for that opinion

I see the distinction between 2 and 3 is a difference without a real difference, unless one wants to go analytical here. 2 happened with Dred Scott as well as other court cases of that time and after. It is nothing new under the sun, but hey some semblance of things do change if you want to rest your hat on that specific hat rack.

———

As for intent, no I do not see it as obvious and there are a dozen different theories out there and it may never be known. Who stands to benefit is precisely why the court is not just balls and strikes but is a political branch as you pointed out in Sebilius court case.

Likewise while not Obergefell but the earlier 1980s case, Bowers v. Hardwick which was about Gay Sodomy, it was 5-4 decision where the states can make Sodomy illegal. Justice Powell one of the 5 judges said at the time he did not know any gay people, he also asked his clerks, one of the clerks was queer and kept his mouth shut for he was closeted, and 4 years after this case was final Powell said he regretted his decision.

But the court is sacrosanct don’t you know! Except I disagree and stop using the word sacred / sacer / sacro for a man dirties the word when one says such nonsense. The court is not inviolable just like history itself is not innocent but full of mess and complications.

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Abortion in the South, and soon, probably all over the country - 25/04/2022 01:26:45 AM 1326 Views
that is the trouble here - 25/04/2022 05:02:46 PM 544 Views
"The party of "bodily autonomy"" - 26/04/2022 04:51:05 PM 483 Views
That is a perverts motte and bailey argument - 26/04/2022 06:27:51 PM 511 Views
The issue is abortion. - 26/04/2022 07:39:00 PM 458 Views
Tell me your feelings about Lochner - 26/04/2022 07:53:00 PM 465 Views
Simple, it was wrongly decided. - 26/04/2022 09:51:27 PM 437 Views
I think that is enough for the day - 26/04/2022 11:07:42 PM 472 Views
I honestly don't give a fig about the constitution here... - 26/04/2022 07:00:57 PM 485 Views
You can't have your cake and eat it too. - 26/04/2022 07:42:51 PM 492 Views
Uhhh - 26/04/2022 07:54:13 PM 459 Views
I mean, yeah. - 26/04/2022 09:58:19 PM 465 Views
You seem to be arguing with an alternate version of me... - 27/04/2022 04:46:46 AM 517 Views
Broad popular support? - 27/04/2022 04:54:49 PM 467 Views
Cannoli is not wrong. - 26/04/2022 05:09:49 PM 524 Views
Cannoli is a contemptuous moron - 26/04/2022 06:56:33 PM 477 Views
I am contemptuous of you (and I suspect your vocabulary skills) - 26/04/2022 09:30:55 PM 516 Views
Was the Catholic Church EVIL . - 26/04/2022 07:01:50 PM 501 Views
Roland, I am neither supporting nor denying any specific theology in my original comment. - 26/04/2022 08:28:31 PM 451 Views
And I am problematizing your claim - 26/04/2022 08:34:17 PM 483 Views
Theodicy - 26/04/2022 08:55:50 PM 518 Views
Re: Theodicy - 26/04/2022 09:45:35 PM 480 Views
and yet... - 26/04/2022 10:35:58 PM 504 Views
What is the Andrea Dworkin line again? - 26/04/2022 11:06:30 PM 482 Views
You're correct about that. We are most assuredly talking past one another. - 26/04/2022 11:39:01 PM 444 Views
Have not had a drink yet. - 26/04/2022 11:46:59 PM 453 Views
Leaked draft opinion - 03/05/2022 06:42:20 PM 525 Views
John Roberts confirms it is real - 03/05/2022 07:37:26 PM 493 Views
Results were leaked, not opinions. - 03/05/2022 08:02:10 PM 439 Views
If you want to parse the history you are welcome to do so. - 03/05/2022 08:32:06 PM 478 Views
You're either being willfully ignorant or disingenuous - 03/05/2022 09:26:49 PM 495 Views
There's a very simple alternate reason - 05/05/2022 06:36:26 AM 486 Views
“Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 05/05/2022 02:02:00 PM 440 Views
Re: “Wants to get the word out there ASAP” - 06/05/2022 09:18:24 PM 492 Views
He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 03:04:07 PM 454 Views
Re: He said, not coming up with any retort of his own. - 09/05/2022 05:01:43 PM 426 Views
Don't blame me for your failures. - 09/05/2022 05:21:48 PM 409 Views
Leaking also kind of locks in the 5 justices into a more radical decision - 05/05/2022 04:08:58 PM 475 Views
Precisely. - 06/05/2022 09:22:16 PM 417 Views
Obvious intent my ass - 05/05/2022 06:32:10 AM 460 Views
Treasonous Pieces of Junk - 05/05/2022 01:58:23 PM 445 Views
I cannot commit treason - 06/05/2022 09:20:20 PM 452 Views
Neither am I. - 09/05/2022 03:02:54 PM 457 Views
Projecting what? - 09/05/2022 05:02:59 PM 453 Views
Is this a parody account? - 09/05/2022 05:25:39 PM 449 Views
Nope. - 12/05/2022 10:23:24 PM 431 Views
Well, if it's not a parody... - 13/05/2022 07:46:45 PM 447 Views
Go look up what it means to “project” - 13/05/2022 05:04:19 PM 449 Views
Stop shifting the goalposts - 13/05/2022 07:45:21 PM 442 Views
There is no goalpost shifting - 17/05/2022 12:48:18 PM 464 Views
Parody Account: Hypocrite, or Just Stupid? - 17/05/2022 07:26:49 PM 478 Views
actually, Trump was impeached - 05/05/2022 02:05:16 PM 452 Views
By Democrats and a few Republicans - 06/05/2022 09:21:38 PM 473 Views
you wrote: - 06/05/2022 09:34:09 PM 405 Views
Ummm - 06/05/2022 09:42:57 PM 419 Views
Interesting is one word for it... - 05/05/2022 06:38:23 AM 436 Views
That's your thought.... - 06/05/2022 05:34:21 PM 485 Views
Hardly just mine - 06/05/2022 09:23:32 PM 420 Views
Interesting... - 06/05/2022 10:33:56 PM 474 Views
Roe has restrictions - 07/05/2022 03:16:32 AM 438 Views
So popular opinion is what decides recognition of life... - 06/05/2022 10:44:08 PM 467 Views
Nice try - 07/05/2022 03:19:35 AM 410 Views
No one said that, and you know it... - 07/05/2022 05:56:04 AM 436 Views
Well that's a lot of empty noise - 07/05/2022 02:46:48 PM 441 Views
Then stop listening to yourself… - 07/05/2022 06:56:45 PM 487 Views
Serious reading comprehension fail here... - 08/05/2022 05:01:28 PM 462 Views
That is the Catholic Church's position after 1869, but lets do Idaho and LA - 07/05/2022 10:08:39 PM 459 Views
And the Minoans practiced child sacrifice... - 09/05/2022 11:51:44 PM 441 Views
So we are in agreement if we circle around - 10/05/2022 02:34:19 AM 419 Views
Well, we agree it will get worse - 10/05/2022 04:05:33 PM 459 Views
Thanks for explaining why Roe was egregiously wrong. - 09/05/2022 03:56:52 PM 424 Views
Roe imposed nothing - 09/05/2022 05:05:36 PM 468 Views
Actually, it does impose - 09/05/2022 05:19:38 PM 669 Views
Re: Actually, it does impose - 13/05/2022 05:09:04 PM 443 Views
Roe imposed abortion on states that banned it. - 09/05/2022 05:26:56 PM 471 Views
States rights do not trump individual rights - 13/05/2022 05:12:13 PM 449 Views
States rights regulate individual rights - 13/05/2022 07:42:52 PM 479 Views
I am not allowed to get divorced in my state of Texas if my spouse is pregnant. - 15/05/2022 07:59:19 PM 473 Views
Cool - 16/05/2022 12:10:57 AM 473 Views
So our state energy grid - 16/05/2022 01:41:50 AM 451 Views
Wow, not sure I've seen you so angry before - 16/05/2022 08:12:58 AM 490 Views
Are you off your meds? - 16/05/2022 12:35:18 PM 405 Views
I live in the world the US set up Internment Camps in living memory, I known survivors. - 16/05/2022 06:00:07 PM 439 Views
You're literally arguing with yourself. - 16/05/2022 08:00:37 PM 461 Views
That is precisely what I am afraid of - 16/05/2022 08:07:41 PM 423 Views
That can literally be flipped right on to the other side. - 16/05/2022 08:19:02 PM 437 Views
Just a reminder freedom of movement is not in the US Constitution - 16/05/2022 08:25:42 PM 459 Views
Again, you put words into my mouth that I've never said. - 16/05/2022 08:32:38 PM 453 Views
Who the fuck cares? - 17/05/2022 12:54:48 PM 491 Views
Parody account strikes back! - 17/05/2022 07:14:24 PM 426 Views
a few final thoughts - 07/05/2022 07:18:38 PM 516 Views
In some ways, it probably would've been better if Roe v Wade had never happened. - 07/05/2022 08:20:17 PM 472 Views
I can always count on you for rational discussion. *NM* - 07/05/2022 09:19:57 PM 309 Views
He really is wonderful. - 09/05/2022 04:29:00 PM 476 Views
Let me join in. Yes. Legolas is good people. *NM* - 10/05/2022 02:52:37 PM 273 Views
History and Histrionic or perhaps - 07/05/2022 10:25:23 PM 477 Views
The denominational distinctions within Christiandom aren't of concern to me... - 08/05/2022 05:09:12 PM 562 Views
There is an easy answer for you. - 09/05/2022 03:53:42 PM 477 Views

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