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Re: So, you're not kidding. Sidious Send a noteboard - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM
You truly are somehow oblivious to the entire point of one of the largest subplots in the entire series.

I don't know how to respond to that. I really don't.

Reread the entire Tower plot and check the number of references to politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah, and contrast it to actually important stuff.

The entire purpose of the Tower split was that Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world. The three important points mentioned - Tarmon Gai'don, the Seanchan and the Black Tower are perfect examples that I am right!

Tarmon Gai'don: The division of the Tower has allowed Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to operate without always having to deal with Aes Sedai trying to control him. Because they are too busy squabbling over their position in the Aes Sedai hierarchy. You claim that Aes Sedai don't care about squabbling (because apparently you consider accusations of systemic support of world-breaking abominations, mass murderers and international criminals to be 'squabbling';) because Tarmon Gai'don is a greater priority, but the series actively proves you wrong. The Tower has been ignoring The Dragon and the Shadow because of their priority on squabbling! Heck, this is exactly why Aran'gar and Mesaana were working to maintain the split!

The Seanchan: Again, read The Gathering Storm. You will be surprised to find that in that book, the Tower is attacked by the Seanchan, and they are completely unprepared for it, because, guess what? They were dealing with more important things to them, namely infighting.
The Black Tower: The Rebels do absolutely nothing about the Black Tower, and Elaida sends one disastrous mission to pacify it. Aside from that, you have Tsutama Rath operating in secret to try to deal with the Black Tower because she considers it a greater priority than Tower squabbling. This would be great for your point, except that the reason she has to use secrecy in this is exactly because her priorities were not shared by the rest of the Tower!

Frankly, that you think that squabbling was not a priority for Aes Sedai is staggering. And that you apparently think that accusations of supporting False Dragons is 'squabbling' is also ridiculous. And that you insist that the Red Ajah doesn't care about this demonstrates disappointing wilful ignorance. I hate quoting Cannoli, but read the damn books, this is pretty explicitly refuted in The Extra Bit.


Stop being hysterical and debate like an adult.

The rebellion against Elaida was not due to the lie, it was merely a falsehood Siuan later created and expanded upon to further her own cause to bring down her rival, and to gain the dubious support of the rebel Hall. You've encapsulated the entire White Tower split under this, which is blatantly untrue. Do you think you're dealing with unintelligent people, or do you seriously think I'm less aware of the series than you are?

We're talking about the present. You're going back to the earlier books and referring to those as part of your evidence of 'squabbling'. The split occured in book 4, and the attack on the Black Tower a few books later. The later books show the opinion of the Red Ajah on this - they find the lie scandalous but they're more concerned with the Black Tower (not invasion - but bonding) and the Dragon Reborn. Pevara and Tsutama openly speak about this.

I don't know why you've gone off on such a childish tangent about everything. You mentioned that it's about time the Reds mentioned the lie i.e. now that the Tower is reunified. I mentioned that the Reds are much more worried about other events that are taking place. Bringing up what happened six books ago makes no sense, and acting like I'm unfamiliar with the plot is extremely insulting.
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM 5190 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition... - 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM 1167 Views
yeah, but then again ... - 09/05/2010 09:05:36 PM 948 Views
That's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM 1194 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense... - 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM 1069 Views
He raised other issues too - 10/05/2010 11:04:52 AM 1067 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies... - 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM 1070 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable. - 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM 936 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle. - 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM 937 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan *NM* - 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM 516 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM* - 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM 532 Views
I usually agree about his manner, but he's right here. - 12/05/2010 04:24:28 AM 1022 Views
Re: No, THAT's total nonsense... - 19/05/2010 04:39:07 PM 980 Views
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. - 12/05/2010 06:32:00 AM 980 Views
Both wonderful characters... - 10/05/2010 12:49:44 AM 903 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ... - 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM 1105 Views
"They"? - 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM 1004 Views
Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM 1147 Views
Re: Good point ... - 10/05/2010 06:49:19 PM 1027 Views
Re: Good point ... - 11/05/2010 03:43:43 PM 1188 Views
Leanne was not an Overseer - 17/05/2010 02:40:45 AM 1022 Views
Re: "They"? - 11/05/2010 02:53:23 PM 1067 Views
And she was eventually brought in on the secrets as well... - 12/05/2010 04:38:52 AM 1025 Views
I don't know if I agree with this - 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM 1042 Views
The thing is ... - 11/05/2010 09:06:15 PM 976 Views
I get what you are saying, but the quote is from much earlier - 14/05/2010 03:14:17 PM 806 Views
I totally unagree... - 17/05/2010 11:16:50 AM 1276 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character - 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM 954 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine - 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM 913 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning - 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM 974 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored - 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM 998 Views
I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM 938 Views
Re: I don't really agree - 11/05/2010 06:28:48 PM 1033 Views
I hope so, as well. - 13/05/2010 05:31:36 PM 979 Views
Re: Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif - 11/05/2010 05:06:51 PM 1240 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds. - 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM 994 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it - 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM 993 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this. - 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM 875 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM* - 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM 581 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM* - 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM 526 Views
The Reds aren't petty - 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM 858 Views
Are you kidding? - 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM 986 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it - 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM 984 Views
There is none. - 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM 976 Views
Uhhh? - 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM 887 Views
... - 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM 1017 Views
Re: ... - 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM 963 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT] - 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM 954 Views
*sigh* - 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM 1014 Views
So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM 902 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM 944 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding. - 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM 1028 Views
So, Tsutama... - 19/05/2010 05:29:56 PM 1095 Views
Ugh. - 20/05/2010 04:05:43 AM 848 Views
WTF? - 20/05/2010 05:25:42 PM 914 Views
F-T is right - 19/05/2010 12:32:33 AM 1016 Views
On the minority thing... - 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM 991 Views
That's exactly the problem. - 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM 842 Views
There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 08:57:50 PM 845 Views
Re: There is no rewriting... - 18/05/2010 09:21:31 PM 954 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red? - 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM 987 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist. - 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM 813 Views
why so pissy? - 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM 982 Views
Sorry. - 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM 911 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM 805 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM 1016 Views
Re: Sorry. - 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM 822 Views
Interesting. - 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM 912 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM 933 Views
Re: Interesting. - 21/05/2010 06:28:05 AM 867 Views
LOL - 21/05/2010 02:50:29 PM 869 Views
... - 21/05/2010 08:23:08 PM 1060 Views
There may be one explanation... - 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM 884 Views
That doesn't make sense. - 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM 1018 Views
it was about more than just male channelers - 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM 1025 Views
Yes, that's true. - 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM 1022 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement - 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM 918 Views
That's also true. - 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM 907 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue - 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM 904 Views
Why are they lumped together? - 12/05/2010 05:53:51 AM 1169 Views
for practical purposes - 12/05/2010 04:50:48 PM 886 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM 911 Views
Re: AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge. - 12/05/2010 11:05:17 PM 1028 Views
No, I don't think so - 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM 850 Views
Let's just say we disagree. - 17/05/2010 11:15:31 PM 972 Views
Bah! - 18/05/2010 04:33:40 PM 938 Views
Pfft - 18/05/2010 05:31:16 PM 943 Views
You don't have to intimidate people to manipulate them. - 19/05/2010 12:46:02 AM 793 Views

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