You truly are somehow oblivious to the entire point of one of the largest subplots in the entire series.
I don't know how to respond to that. I really don't.
Reread the entire Tower plot and check the number of references to politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah, and contrast it to actually important stuff.
The entire purpose of the Tower split was that Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world. The three important points mentioned - Tarmon Gai'don, the Seanchan and the Black Tower are perfect examples that I am right!
Tarmon Gai'don: The division of the Tower has allowed Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to operate without always having to deal with Aes Sedai trying to control him. Because they are too busy squabbling over their position in the Aes Sedai hierarchy. You claim that Aes Sedai don't care about squabbling (because apparently you consider accusations of systemic support of world-breaking abominations, mass murderers and international criminals to be 'squabbling'
because Tarmon Gai'don is a greater priority, but the series actively proves you wrong. The Tower has been ignoring The Dragon and the Shadow because of their priority on squabbling! Heck, this is exactly why Aran'gar and Mesaana were working to maintain the split!
The Seanchan: Again, read The Gathering Storm. You will be surprised to find that in that book, the Tower is attacked by the Seanchan, and they are completely unprepared for it, because, guess what? They were dealing with more important things to them, namely infighting.
The Black Tower: The Rebels do absolutely nothing about the Black Tower, and Elaida sends one disastrous mission to pacify it. Aside from that, you have Tsutama Rath operating in secret to try to deal with the Black Tower because she considers it a greater priority than Tower squabbling. This would be great for your point, except that the reason she has to use secrecy in this is exactly because her priorities were not shared by the rest of the Tower!
Frankly, that you think that squabbling was not a priority for Aes Sedai is staggering. And that you apparently think that accusations of supporting False Dragons is 'squabbling' is also ridiculous. And that you insist that the Red Ajah doesn't care about this demonstrates disappointing wilful ignorance. I hate quoting Cannoli, but read the damn books, this is pretty explicitly refuted in The Extra Bit.
I don't know how to respond to that. I really don't.
Reread the entire Tower plot and check the number of references to politicking for control of either Halls, useless hierarchical crap like Shemerin's demotion, the outrage over stuff like Elaida disbanding the Blue Ajah, and contrast it to actually important stuff.
The entire purpose of the Tower split was that Aes Sedai cared more about their own squabbling than the end of the world. The three important points mentioned - Tarmon Gai'don, the Seanchan and the Black Tower are perfect examples that I am right!
Tarmon Gai'don: The division of the Tower has allowed Rand, the Dragon Reborn, to operate without always having to deal with Aes Sedai trying to control him. Because they are too busy squabbling over their position in the Aes Sedai hierarchy. You claim that Aes Sedai don't care about squabbling (because apparently you consider accusations of systemic support of world-breaking abominations, mass murderers and international criminals to be 'squabbling'
because Tarmon Gai'don is a greater priority, but the series actively proves you wrong. The Tower has been ignoring The Dragon and the Shadow because of their priority on squabbling! Heck, this is exactly why Aran'gar and Mesaana were working to maintain the split!The Seanchan: Again, read The Gathering Storm. You will be surprised to find that in that book, the Tower is attacked by the Seanchan, and they are completely unprepared for it, because, guess what? They were dealing with more important things to them, namely infighting.
The Black Tower: The Rebels do absolutely nothing about the Black Tower, and Elaida sends one disastrous mission to pacify it. Aside from that, you have Tsutama Rath operating in secret to try to deal with the Black Tower because she considers it a greater priority than Tower squabbling. This would be great for your point, except that the reason she has to use secrecy in this is exactly because her priorities were not shared by the rest of the Tower!
Frankly, that you think that squabbling was not a priority for Aes Sedai is staggering. And that you apparently think that accusations of supporting False Dragons is 'squabbling' is also ridiculous. And that you insist that the Red Ajah doesn't care about this demonstrates disappointing wilful ignorance. I hate quoting Cannoli, but read the damn books, this is pretty explicitly refuted in The Extra Bit.
Stop being hysterical and debate like an adult.
The rebellion against Elaida was not due to the lie, it was merely a falsehood Siuan later created and expanded upon to further her own cause to bring down her rival, and to gain the dubious support of the rebel Hall. You've encapsulated the entire White Tower split under this, which is blatantly untrue. Do you think you're dealing with unintelligent people, or do you seriously think I'm less aware of the series than you are?
We're talking about the present. You're going back to the earlier books and referring to those as part of your evidence of 'squabbling'. The split occured in book 4, and the attack on the Black Tower a few books later. The later books show the opinion of the Red Ajah on this - they find the lie scandalous but they're more concerned with the Black Tower (not invasion - but bonding) and the Dragon Reborn. Pevara and Tsutama openly speak about this.
I don't know why you've gone off on such a childish tangent about everything. You mentioned that it's about time the Reds mentioned the lie i.e. now that the Tower is reunified. I mentioned that the Reds are much more worried about other events that are taking place. Bringing up what happened six books ago makes no sense, and acting like I'm unfamiliar with the plot is extremely insulting.
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Character discussion 2 : Siuan Sanche and Leane Sharif
- 09/05/2010 06:01:33 PM
5330 Views
The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition...
- 09/05/2010 07:07:09 PM
1267 Views
That's total nonsense...
- 10/05/2010 08:34:08 AM
1246 Views
No, THAT's total nonsense...
- 10/05/2010 09:27:41 AM
1122 Views
You seem to deal in bad analogies...
- 10/05/2010 05:14:47 PM
1129 Views
You've got an irritating manner about you. No wonder you find Aes Sedai so believable.
- 10/05/2010 05:53:00 PM
981 Views
Hello Pot. I'm Kettle.
- 10/05/2010 06:41:58 PM
1001 Views
Hello Kettle. I'm Frying pan
*NM*
- 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM
542 Views
*NM*
- 11/05/2010 03:43:20 PM
542 Views
Hello Frying pan. I'm Skillet. *NM*
- 12/05/2010 11:50:33 PM
557 Views
Re: Hello Skillet, I'm a baking sheet can't we all have some cookies and get along? *NM*
- 17/05/2010 05:17:24 PM
498 Views
All of those people EARNED their positions by being the best, not a compromise candidate for office!
- 12/05/2010 04:36:36 AM
1188 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition...
- 12/05/2010 04:23:07 AM
1081 Views
Re: The "Shrinking of Siuan" after stilling destroyed my initial awe for the Amyrlin positition...
- 12/05/2010 06:33:37 AM
1025 Views
They deserved to be deposed and stilled, I think ...
- 10/05/2010 02:47:35 PM
1156 Views
"They"?
- 10/05/2010 05:16:54 PM
1058 Views
Good point ...
- 10/05/2010 06:45:52 PM
1206 Views
I don't know if I agree with this
- 11/05/2010 03:19:20 PM
1093 Views
I like Leane, and respected Siuan until RJ mauled her character
- 10/05/2010 05:55:08 PM
1003 Views
She was probably the sacrificial lamb in place of Moiraine
- 10/05/2010 06:25:39 PM
961 Views
The deck was certainly stacked against Siuan from the very beginning
- 11/05/2010 02:44:05 PM
1049 Views
This is a main reason I hope Siuan and Leanne get their full strength restored
- 11/05/2010 02:25:31 PM
1049 Views
I don't really agree
- 11/05/2010 05:35:44 PM
996 Views
I see your point and like I said, I think there are certainly other resolutions to the story line
- 11/05/2010 06:22:44 PM
987 Views
I'm still annoyed that Siuan is not going to face the consequences of lying about the Reds.
- 12/05/2010 05:18:47 AM
1053 Views
In Egwene's defense, it would be hypocritical of her to bring that up after profiting from it
- 12/05/2010 05:59:57 AM
1044 Views
Oh, I never expected Egwene to do something about this.
- 12/05/2010 06:12:35 AM
920 Views
Well she's off forging a relationship with the Asha'man - you know, useful stuff? *NM*
- 12/05/2010 06:39:04 AM
608 Views
Are you claiming that Pevara was the only woman in the entire Red Ajah to be offended by that lie? *NM*
- 12/05/2010 07:15:40 AM
552 Views
The Reds aren't petty
- 12/05/2010 04:52:50 PM
910 Views
Are you kidding?
- 12/05/2010 06:14:46 PM
1057 Views
Unless of course there is truth to it
- 17/05/2010 01:50:27 PM
1048 Views
There is none.
- 17/05/2010 07:09:59 PM
1027 Views
Uhhh?
- 17/05/2010 08:45:15 PM
935 Views
...
- 17/05/2010 11:08:05 PM
1070 Views
Re: ...
- 18/05/2010 05:25:33 AM
1006 Views
Seriously, are you kidding? [EDIT]
- 18/05/2010 06:06:01 AM
1014 Views
*sigh*
- 18/05/2010 12:30:43 PM
1085 Views
So, you're not kidding.
- 18/05/2010 09:12:27 PM
953 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding.
- 18/05/2010 10:25:19 PM
990 Views
Re: So, you're not kidding.
- 19/05/2010 12:41:09 AM
1077 Views
On the minority thing...
- 18/05/2010 04:26:15 PM
1046 Views
That's exactly the problem.
- 18/05/2010 08:51:45 PM
899 Views
Really do you have a quote supporting the fact that there has never been a FD supported by a Red?
- 18/05/2010 09:39:31 PM
1044 Views
Of course..., I'll provide it as soon as you prove you're not a Nazi serial child rapist.
- 18/05/2010 10:06:23 PM
865 Views
why so pissy?
- 19/05/2010 03:34:22 PM
1032 Views
Sorry.
- 20/05/2010 04:16:43 AM
957 Views
Re: Sorry.
- 20/05/2010 08:19:13 AM
851 Views
Re: Sorry.
- 20/05/2010 08:33:54 AM
1088 Views
Re: Sorry.
- 20/05/2010 01:26:47 PM
870 Views
Interesting.
- 20/05/2010 07:34:45 PM
958 Views
Re: Interesting.
- 21/05/2010 05:07:07 AM
982 Views
No worries! I was just caught off guard by your response... sorry for your stress! *NM*
- 20/05/2010 10:04:35 PM
644 Views
There may be one explanation...
- 13/05/2010 10:04:46 PM
939 Views
That doesn't make sense.
- 13/05/2010 10:54:53 PM
1086 Views
it was about more than just male channelers
- 18/05/2010 09:50:14 PM
1124 Views
Yes, that's true.
- 18/05/2010 10:07:22 PM
1103 Views
I'm also certain the majority of the Red had no clue/involvement
- 20/05/2010 10:24:54 PM
981 Views
That's also true.
- 20/05/2010 10:29:11 PM
966 Views
Okay I'm leaving you alone ... you clearly don't want to continue
- 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM
974 Views
- 20/05/2010 10:31:01 PM
974 Views
AS shrunk after stilling; Siuan and Leane became huge.
- 12/05/2010 10:50:50 PM
968 Views
No, I don't think so
- 13/05/2010 05:10:03 AM
906 Views
