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she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM
thnx for supplying the quote ... but it does support Elayne only "drawing as much as she dared" through the woman ... with the full strength of it she would be way too strong to be realistic.


Using as much as she dared means she used it to its maximum.

But let's not belabor that point. After all, it would only back up all the other quotes that support this gap between Elayne's level and the Forsaken level.

Some very compelling evidence is this:

Egwene states that Moghedien is significantly stronger than her. So much so that she could overwhelm Egwene quite easily. Egwene also says that the only sister who can match Moghedien, is Nynaeve, which clearly makes this a reference to STRENGTH, and not skill, as Nynaeve is less skilled than Ewgene in many respects, and certainly less skilled than Moghedien.

So this establishes a significant gap between Egwene and Moghedien. And to this you have to add all the growth in strength that Nynaeve still had to go through between the time that she matched Moghedien and when she eventually reaches her ultimate strength. It is very likely that she increased in strength by as much as a third after the point where she equalled Moghedien.

She was still growing stronger 5 Books later, while still not being at her full potential, even then.

This clearly establishes a massive gap between Egwene and Nynaeve's strength levels. And Nynaeve isn't even at the top of the female strength list. There are another 5 women stronger than her.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3358 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1692 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1527 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 824 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1437 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1648 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1474 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1452 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1482 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1371 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1485 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 904 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 1230 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1542 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1465 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1385 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 881 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1439 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1358 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1473 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 1273 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1382 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1390 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1395 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1354 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1258 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1518 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1531 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1424 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1384 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1209 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1265 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1236 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1348 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1349 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1355 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1302 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1309 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1422 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1447 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1349 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1593 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1391 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1411 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1192 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1282 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1289 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1375 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1343 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1272 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1291 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1350 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 1257 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1255 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1328 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1393 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1333 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1367 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1200 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1331 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 1126 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1446 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1411 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1329 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 670 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1356 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1481 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1397 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 1124 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1249 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1316 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1350 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1288 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 1155 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1318 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 1102 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1346 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1412 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1285 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1305 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1277 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1514 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1421 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1213 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1242 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 1120 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1235 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1392 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1330 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1386 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1284 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1314 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1309 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1361 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1258 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 871 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1301 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1240 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 1148 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1322 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1172 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1206 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1238 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1342 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1268 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1327 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1244 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1211 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1341 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1324 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1229 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1328 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1229 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1256 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 1135 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 1143 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1146 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1335 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 1192 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2696 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1296 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1435 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1193 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1305 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1319 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1294 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1229 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1219 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1413 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1326 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1338 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1340 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1382 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1493 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1211 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1196 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1321 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1310 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1309 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 1297 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1346 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 1276 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1319 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1340 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 903 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1271 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1288 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1211 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1245 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1422 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1348 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1236 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 758 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 1247 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1251 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1263 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1248 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1292 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1288 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1340 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 815 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1209 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1291 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1380 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 1159 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1316 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1339 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 1250 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1328 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 1238 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1320 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1479 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1359 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1472 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1253 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 844 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1186 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1214 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1344 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1239 Views
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