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Laughable interpretation... Shannow Send a noteboard - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM
If Amys is 52, then Egwene would have to be around 100, since Aviendha says Egwene is stronger than Amys and Melaine combined
Indeed she does not say that. What she says is: "You are Aes Sedai, and strong enough in the Power to overcome Amys and Melaine together." Now, whether Aviendha is actually able to discern that much so early in her training is questionable, and whether she's not merely exaggerating in service to the point she was making is as well, considering the mountain of textual evidence Linda has collected against your interpretation of that statement, and that she's still somewhat deferential to Aes Sedai. But what she does say is not enough to draw the conclusion that (Amys+Melaine)<Egwene, particularly when we know that increased strength means increased ability to divide flows, and that Aviendha was unaware of "combining" power by linking at the time.

Since this tenuous and much-contradicted assumption appears to be the sole basis of your argument, the rest of it falls apart like a house of cards.

Furthermore,
In fact, we know that Nynaeve had maybe 20-30% of growth left above Moghedien's level

No we don't.


The fact that Aviendha knows so little about One Power mechanics at this point in time - including linking advantages, linking losses etc - PROVES that all she could have been referring to with that comment was raw strength.

All you're basically saying is that you do not accept that statement by Aviendha, because it does not fit with your picture of how the strength ladder should look.

It is a clear statement.



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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3251 Views
Yes. Cannoli - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1565 Views
No. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1418 Views
Indeed! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 763 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1329 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1561 Views
Three things: Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1357 Views
That quote is incorrect as it contradicts all other evidence from later books... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:51:02 PM 1325 Views
If strength isn't linear and on a steep enough curve that could work. Myrdhyn - 09/12/2010 07:22:24 PM 1368 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1258 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1373 Views
I just hope aMoL finally reveals who's going to be the Dragon Reborn...these lesser debates can hang *NM* Cannoli - 09/12/2010 05:26:37 PM 840 Views
*Spoiler* TGS and TOM revealed that Egwene is the DR. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 10/12/2010 07:57:53 PM 1121 Views
Agreed. Joel - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1433 Views
not really darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1352 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1287 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* Kieran - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 819 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1323 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1239 Views
I don't have the book handy, but she talks about the level of complexity darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:45:52 PM 1352 Views
hmm, but we still don't know if it's the weaves or the process that is so complex LadyLorraine - 09/12/2010 06:28:14 PM 1157 Views
Well according to Monaella it makes it harder to Channel, but from Elayne's POV darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 06:52:55 PM 1266 Views
Re: not really Zeratul - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1255 Views
Angreal have buffers moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1274 Views
none of them are very strong darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1248 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths redqueen - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1161 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths sleepinghour - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1400 Views
Exactly moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1422 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... Shannow - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1286 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1263 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... Shannow - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1067 Views
where is that quote my friend? darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1134 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1085 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1230 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1247 Views
Don't be absurd... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1254 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1179 Views
Nonsense... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1202 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1309 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1337 Views
And yet... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1243 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1480 Views
Here are te quotes... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1279 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1287 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1092 Views
Oh nonsense Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1175 Views
But that's his point. Gher - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1180 Views
its a useless point Sidious - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1277 Views
Yes, utterly useless... Shannow - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1222 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1175 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1188 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1247 Views
potentially, but Mesaana later turns up with BA using the 19 stolen ter'angreal. darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:41:41 PM 1156 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1145 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1209 Views
What? fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1277 Views
Re: What? Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1223 Views
Oh boohoo... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1248 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1110 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1233 Views
which only tells us that Nynaeve is equal to the Forsaken. Has nothing to do with Egwene being darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:51:12 PM 1035 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1328 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... Shannow - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1267 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1234 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 609 Views
Re: Yes. moratcorlm - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1254 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1365 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1290 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 995 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1108 Views
Nope... Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1188 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1237 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1169 Views
that's the point I'm making darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 1039 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced Zeratul - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1208 Views
I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:43:29 PM 996 Views
Re: I believe there is a quote from RJ that states they all were, but Egwene was held damane darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:46:50 PM 1244 Views
Thanks for the quote Zeratul - 12/12/2010 07:17:30 PM 1313 Views
perhaps the opportunity hasn't arisen? And of course it's politic to appologize to the Amyrlin darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:41:11 PM 1180 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 08:04:21 PM 1206 Views
that's where I'm estimating Nynaeve being close to Siuan and Moiraine in EoTW darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 08:30:54 PM 1193 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1385 Views
nope darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1317 Views
Mesaana Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1087 Views
agreed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1147 Views
Re: agreed Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 1015 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1098 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1269 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1224 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1268 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. Shannow - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1155 Views
"clear evidence" moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1211 Views
Laughable interpretation... Shannow - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1217 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1237 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1158 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* Gher - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 805 Views
couple of thoughts here darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1211 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1129 Views
that's what I said! EDIT darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 1045 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1225 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1081 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well sleepinghour - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1108 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1134 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells sleepinghour - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1231 Views
I agree with that completely. darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1162 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1236 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1138 Views
Dude... fionwe1987 - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1102 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1214 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1198 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1133 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1225 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1137 Views
And she doesn't know any details... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1143 Views
this conversation is so pointless darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 1021 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 1018 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. Sidious - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1039 Views
Of course its obvious now! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1241 Views
it was always obvious that to me. The first thing Egwene thinks is about what the drug does to her darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:07:38 AM 1089 Views
Shielding Sidious - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2589 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO darius_sedai - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1181 Views
Re: Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:25:20 AM 1306 Views
There is, actually... fionwe1987 - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1087 Views
Meh Sidious - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1195 Views
Well... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1223 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1188 Views
Tell Darius that... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1126 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength darius_sedai - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1097 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1324 Views
um, Elayne was in the process of bleeding to death and then had just been Healed darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:50:27 PM 1217 Views
You forget... fionwe1987 - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1243 Views
astounding "evidence" darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1239 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" The_Archer - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1254 Views
thanks darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1387 Views
Re: thanks The_Archer - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1093 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1077 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part The_Archer - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1185 Views
Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 05:13:46 PM 1208 Views
Re: Actually in the AoL all AS who went over (50%) were refered to as Forsaken The_Archer - 12/12/2010 06:35:02 PM 1172 Views
All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen darius_sedai - 12/12/2010 07:50:59 PM 1189 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:05:58 PM 1238 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:11:29 PM 1141 Views
Re: All of the AS who went over to the DO refered to themselves as the Chosen The_Archer - 12/12/2010 11:14:47 PM 1195 Views
I don't get the logic here... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1239 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 864 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve Shannow - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1174 Views
And...? fionwe1987 - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1178 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. Shannow - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1097 Views
That was my interpretation too Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1149 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1286 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1246 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1132 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* Zeratul - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 702 Views
You are correct! So clearly worry about the babies was not a reason to not draw more darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:05:30 PM 1152 Views
And... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1138 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene Sidious - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1153 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1164 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1197 Views
Yes, I did know that. moratcorlm - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1184 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! darius_sedai - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1232 Views
Oops. *NM* moratcorlm - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 765 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1116 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1176 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1264 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:12:12 PM 1068 Views
they can actually sense both which is how Elayne knows Nynaeve is not at full potential darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 09:22:35 PM 1223 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken The_Archer - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1252 Views
Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 10:08:16 PM 1132 Views
Re: Please note that Nynaeve has commented every time she's been around The_Archer - 10/12/2010 10:50:32 PM 1239 Views
It's more than just fear of Moridin that makes her choose an attack from such a distance darius_sedai - 10/12/2010 11:10:57 PM 1089 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken sleepinghour - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1231 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken Sidious - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1383 Views
Help im new! The_Archer - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1247 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The Angry Druid - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1351 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. The_Archer - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1153 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* Lord Haart - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 781 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? Sidious - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1097 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. Lord Haart - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1120 Views
you misread the topic Sidious - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1260 Views
But the debate is moronic because... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1114 Views
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