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Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM

Silviana is covering all of her bases ...

Exactly. She's taking extra precautions. These aren't necessary.

she certainly doesn't want to run the risk of Egwene waking up in the middle of the night, breaking a too weak shield and vanishing via gateway ... thus the "this child is tricky" comment. Let's face it any Sister could hold a shield on a sleeping woman.

And keep the woman sleeping? The point you are ignoring is that Silviana, Katerine, Barasine (by their reactions) and Egwene (by her PoV) make it clear that Barasine alone can hold Egwene's shield, even when the Forkroot is gone.

Katerine was just bitching that she's stuck with the task. It's in her nature to hate being forced to do tasks like this! Note how Silviana treats Katerine in this moment ... like a petulant child! Her response is "Because I said so" something you say to a bratty kid!

Okay... so? Egwene doesn't seem surprised at all by Katarine's comment. She never thinks, "Oh great! That means I can escape". Instead, she notes that Barasine seem displeased by Katerine's comment, since it implied that the weaker sister, Barasine, would be asked to hold the shield. Even then, Egwene doesn't comment on the sheer impossibility of that. To me that indicates that Barasine can shield Egwene.

And Egwene still had so much Forkroot in her she was only barely able to Channel at all... not to mention she was exhausted from being captured!

And this is the state in which she was confident she could surprise five Aes Sedai and escape? 8}
What is she, Lanfear?

KOD
Prologe

Apparently she did not. Katerine flushed, but she said no more. The glow of saidar surrounded Silviana, and she took over the shield smoothly, without giving any opening when Egwene might have embraced the Power herself. She was certain that she could, now. Except that Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope she could break the woman’s shield. The gag of Air disappeared at the same time, and she contented herself with digging a handkerchief from her belt pouch and calmly wiping her chin.

First note that Egwene is only now able to even embrace the source and we know from history that Forkroot dampens your strength for hours (as we see all through the rest of the book Egwene can channel only a trickle).

It dampens your strength for hours if you take a strong dose. The dose Egwene was given knocked her out for a few minutes, and a couple of minutes later, in the carriage, Egwene was confident of being able to defeat five Aes Sedai.

If, as you contend, Silviana could only hold the shield due to the forkroot, why didn't Egwene say that? Why say, "Except Silviana was far from weak; there was no hope that she could break the woman's shield"? If the Forkroot was the only reason Silviana could hold the shield, Egwene would have thought so.

This quote gives absolutely no indication that Barasine alone is capable of holding a shield on Egwene for long!

Well, of course it doesn't! But this quote does:
“Why both of us?” Katerine wanted to know, which earned her a wry glance from Barasine. If only one were sent, it surely would not
be Katerine, who stood higher.


Egwene doesn't even indicate any surprise at this move. If Barasine couldn't shield Egwene on her own, wouldn't Egwene have thought of that, and wouldn't Silviana have mentioned that as one of her reasons?

Then let's take this into consideration:

TGS
News in TAR

The two glanced at her with annoyance. "The shield," Barasine said. "We've been instructed to always have at least two to maintain it."

"Oh, for the. . . ." Egwene took a deep breath. "If I vow not to embrace the Power until I am properly back in the custody of another Red sister, will that be enough for you?"

The two regarded her with suspicion.

"I suspected as much," Egwene said. She turned to a group of novices who were standing in a side corridor, pretending to scrub the tiles on the side wall while they gawked at Egwene.

"You," Egwene said, pointing to one of them. "Marsial, isn't it?"

"Yes, Mother," the girl squeaked.

"Go and fetch us some forkroot tea. Katerine should have some at the study of the Mistress of Novices. It's not far. Tell her that Barasine requested it for use on me; bring it to my quarters."

The novice scrambled off to do as asked.

"I'll dose myself with that, and then at least one of you can go," Egwene said. "Your Ajah is collapsing. They're going to need all of the clear minds they can get; maybe you can convince your sisters that it is unwise to let Elaida execute Silviana."

The two Reds glanced at each other uncertainly. Then the spindly one whose name Egwene didn't know cursed softly and hurried away with a flurry of rustling skirts. Barasine called after her, but the woman didn't return.

Barasine glanced at Egwene, muttered something under her breath, but remained in place. "We're waiting for that forkroot," she said, staring Egwene in the eyes. "Keep moving on to your quarters."


Always instructed to have at least 2 maintaining the shield (implying that if weaker Sisters were holding it there may be need for more),

Implying the opposite, actually. It means that one is enough, but they want more around Egwene.

Barasine muttering under her breath and calling for the other Red to return ... and there is no evidence that the other one even left the link ... no reason to assume Barasine wasn't in control of a link and the other woman's strength was still there.

You contradict yourself. If the other were still in the link, Barasine doesn't have to call her back, does she?

Also, do note that Daigian, Elza and Erian are apparently enough to hold Semirhage.

There were several others in the hallway with her—Daigian, Erian, Elza—whose turn it was to maintain Semirhage's shield. Aside from Cadsuane, each Aes Sedai in the camp took turns. It was too dangerous to risk forcing the duty only on the Aes Sedai of lesser stature, lest they grow weary. The shield had to remain strong. Light only knew what would happen if Semirhage got free.

Since Daigian is extremely weak, and Elza is too weak to Travel, this means that the weakest AS, a somewhat weak AS, and a middling AS can hold Semirhage herself. And from Cadsuane's statement, even these three are an extra precaution. This clearly implies that even women weaker than Barasine can hold the shield on Egwene.
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More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 09/12/2010 03:45:27 PM 3365 Views
Yes. - 09/12/2010 04:39:58 PM 1701 Views
No. - 09/12/2010 05:34:57 PM 1540 Views
Indeed! *NM* - 09/12/2010 05:39:47 PM 830 Views
Actually...exponential or at least non-linear makes alot of sense to me - 09/12/2010 06:27:29 PM 1448 Views
Nope. Then Rand would be able to crush 13 Aes Sedai with ease. - 09/12/2010 06:32:53 PM 1654 Views
Three things: - 09/12/2010 06:47:30 PM 1483 Views
I think that RJ's statement that the strongest man and strongest women were equal... - 10/12/2010 03:23:12 PM 1379 Views
I wasn't aware this was an issue? - 09/12/2010 04:45:02 PM 1501 Views
Agreed. - 20/12/2010 01:17:32 AM 1550 Views
not really - 09/12/2010 04:46:42 PM 1481 Views
and you'll note that none of the angreal are considered particularly strong - 09/12/2010 04:48:14 PM 1398 Views
She probably weaved them separately on account of being pregnant *NM* - 09/12/2010 04:56:12 PM 885 Views
Pregnancy seems to be interfere with her ability to grasp the power - 09/12/2010 05:06:15 PM 1447 Views
I don't know if it's a more complex CHANNELING undertaking, though - 09/12/2010 05:42:57 PM 1369 Views
Re: not really - 09/12/2010 05:16:02 PM 1405 Views
Angreal have buffers - 09/12/2010 05:38:45 PM 1412 Views
none of them are very strong - 09/12/2010 05:38:49 PM 1360 Views
We never really get a feel for their relative strengths - 09/12/2010 05:51:38 PM 1263 Views
Re: We never really get a feel for their relative strengths - 09/12/2010 10:00:23 PM 1530 Views
Exactly - 10/12/2010 09:36:52 AM 1541 Views
Yes. In PoD Aviendha states that the woman-wrapped-in-hair angreal almost doubles her strength... - 09/12/2010 06:30:41 PM 1433 Views
you have the wrong angreal and the wrong strength - 09/12/2010 07:07:18 PM 1396 Views
Nope. You are the one whose got the wrong angreal... - 09/12/2010 07:15:38 PM 1225 Views
where is that quote my friend? - 09/12/2010 08:07:50 PM 1282 Views
PoD: The Breaking Storm - 09/12/2010 08:16:58 PM 1247 Views
Ah yes, ... "almost 2x as much" still doesn't support your assertion that Nyn is 50% above Elayne - 09/12/2010 08:20:37 PM 1358 Views
That's a gross skewing of what that sentence means... - 09/12/2010 09:05:05 PM 1358 Views
Don't be absurd... - 09/12/2010 09:21:00 PM 1363 Views
Yes, but does BS know that? - 09/12/2010 09:26:10 PM 1312 Views
Nonsense... - 09/12/2010 09:45:17 PM 1317 Views
she does not say that! she says Moghedien could kill her before she could react. so could Daigian - 09/12/2010 09:34:50 PM 1427 Views
"The only Aes Sedai who could hope to match one of the Forsaken was in Ebou Dar..." - 09/12/2010 09:44:25 PM 1461 Views
And yet... - 09/12/2010 09:48:34 PM 1358 Views
No, Egwene does NOT think she can defeat Mesaana in a One Power battle... - 09/12/2010 09:59:35 PM 1607 Views
Here are te quotes... - 09/12/2010 10:10:09 PM 1399 Views
Did you not read the quote above, made by Egwene in the heat of battle with Mesaana? - 09/12/2010 10:34:05 PM 1425 Views
It might interest you to know that that was Katerine! - 10/12/2010 12:15:51 AM 1201 Views
Oh nonsense - 10/12/2010 04:43:44 AM 1296 Views
But that's his point. - 10/12/2010 06:01:59 AM 1298 Views
its a useless point - 10/12/2010 10:11:00 AM 1384 Views
Yes, utterly useless... - 10/12/2010 11:46:15 AM 1351 Views
Dude, you need to re-read the books... - 10/12/2010 04:15:11 PM 1283 Views
he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true - 10/12/2010 08:19:16 PM 1298 Views
Re: he means Sheriam, but your points still hold true - 11/12/2010 07:21:49 AM 1357 Views
I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... - 10/12/2010 04:11:56 PM 1268 Views
Re: I'm so glad you're a mod! Setting great standards there... - 10/12/2010 04:35:23 PM 1335 Views
What? - 10/12/2010 11:19:57 PM 1408 Views
Re: What? - 11/12/2010 07:20:19 AM 1347 Views
Oh boohoo... - 11/12/2010 07:55:58 PM 1381 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. - 10/12/2010 06:47:17 AM 1216 Views
Duh! Seriously, are you Elaida or something? Your logic is astounding. - 10/12/2010 06:47:18 AM 1341 Views
Nynaeve has been channeling (albeit blocked) for close to 10 years - 10/12/2010 02:24:57 PM 1456 Views
Think about the logic of what you're proposing... - 10/12/2010 02:39:56 PM 1419 Views
It's what's in the friggin books! - 10/12/2010 03:33:08 PM 1343 Views
Duplicate post - deleted *NM* - 09/12/2010 08:19:05 PM 675 Views
Re: Yes. - 09/12/2010 07:49:12 PM 1372 Views
You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... - 09/12/2010 08:03:51 PM 1491 Views
where this falls apart is that Daigian at a 10 is too weak - 09/12/2010 08:16:17 PM 1406 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2010 08:44:51 PM 1132 Views
now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say - 09/12/2010 09:29:20 PM 1260 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2010 09:42:58 PM 1324 Views
all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW - 11/12/2010 08:04:02 PM 1360 Views
Re: all of the girls were Forced! Nynaeve was already at least as strong as Moiraine in EoTW - 11/12/2010 11:59:55 PM 1298 Views
that's the point I'm making - 12/12/2010 12:58:38 AM 1164 Views
I don't think Elayne was forced - 12/12/2010 04:33:26 PM 1332 Views
Re: now you are just force fitting quotes into what you want to say - 10/12/2010 01:17:10 AM 1531 Views
nope - 10/12/2010 02:05:00 PM 1434 Views
Mesaana - 10/12/2010 04:43:07 AM 1230 Views
agreed - 10/12/2010 01:48:59 PM 1250 Views
Re: agreed - 10/12/2010 04:38:28 PM 1127 Views
very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother - 10/12/2010 05:03:43 PM 1246 Views
Re: very true, and I find it interesting that during the TAR battle Mesaana didn't bother - 11/12/2010 07:22:54 AM 1403 Views
yes and no - 11/12/2010 03:47:28 PM 1341 Views
Re: You're obviously a latecomer to this ongoing debate. Here's a recap... - 10/12/2010 09:19:17 AM 1401 Views
OK. Here's the clear evidence of Dagian's, Moiraine's, Egwenes and Moghedien's comparative levels. - 10/12/2010 12:00:48 PM 1301 Views
"clear evidence" - 10/12/2010 01:27:01 PM 1326 Views
Laughable interpretation... - 10/12/2010 01:31:57 PM 1320 Views
Re: Laughable interpretation... - 10/12/2010 03:34:01 PM 1374 Views
Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... - 10/12/2010 04:27:30 PM 1265 Views
Doesn't the forkroot explain that? *NM* - 10/12/2010 04:47:53 PM 877 Views
couple of thoughts here - 10/12/2010 08:01:44 PM 1319 Views
Re: couple of thoughts here - 10/12/2010 11:27:19 PM 1245 Views
that's what I said! EDIT - 11/12/2010 04:03:59 PM 1159 Views
Well... - 11/12/2010 07:58:38 PM 1332 Views
Katerine is a pain in the ass and Silviana wasn't about to risk only one woman holding that shield - 11/12/2010 08:26:29 PM 1182 Views
Leane was shielded by two sisters as well - 11/12/2010 11:14:08 PM 1217 Views
I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells - 11/12/2010 11:22:12 PM 1245 Views
Re: I think that's almost certainly a custom for women held in the open cells - 12/12/2010 12:04:33 AM 1359 Views
I agree with that completely. - 12/12/2010 01:03:54 AM 1276 Views
Oh... so we dismiss all quotes from people we don't like? - 12/12/2010 05:18:42 AM 1338 Views
re-read the section my friend. EDIT - 12/12/2010 03:58:28 PM 1255 Views
Dude... - 12/12/2010 06:29:43 PM 1230 Views
did you read the quote? They discuss how much they gave her on the way to the Tower! - 12/12/2010 07:39:55 PM 1352 Views
Not one of those things answers my rather simple question... - 13/12/2010 02:27:44 AM 1336 Views
because it's the first time Egwene has been dosed with Forkroot - 13/12/2010 03:55:18 AM 1241 Views
She knows but she doesn't know? - 13/12/2010 05:35:55 AM 1344 Views
She knows that Nynaeve had told her it dampened her ability - 13/12/2010 05:13:23 PM 1236 Views
And she doesn't know any details... - 13/12/2010 07:19:12 PM 1269 Views
this conversation is so pointless - 13/12/2010 10:43:35 PM 1149 Views
Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. - 13/12/2010 11:24:24 PM 1158 Views
Re: Yes. But since you continue to not answer the main question, necessary. - 14/12/2010 11:06:55 AM 1160 Views
Of course its obvious now! - 14/12/2010 12:44:59 PM 1348 Views
Shielding - 13/12/2010 08:01:19 PM 2710 Views
Practice. We do know that AS practice their weaves far more than WO - 13/12/2010 10:50:09 PM 1308 Views
There is, actually... - 13/12/2010 11:28:42 PM 1201 Views
Meh - 14/12/2010 04:22:45 AM 1321 Views
Well... - 14/12/2010 04:37:50 AM 1329 Views
Re: Well... - 14/12/2010 10:52:55 AM 1303 Views
Tell Darius that... - 14/12/2010 12:47:19 PM 1240 Views
of course Katerine is redundant! 2 women of Barasine and Katerine's strength - 18/12/2010 05:00:50 AM 1227 Views
Re: Amys is clearly stronger than half Egwene's strength... - 11/12/2010 07:31:25 AM 1421 Views
You forget... - 11/12/2010 08:02:03 PM 1352 Views
astounding "evidence" - 10/12/2010 09:58:47 PM 1348 Views
Re: astounding "evidence" - 11/12/2010 09:15:03 AM 1392 Views
thanks - 11/12/2010 03:54:54 PM 1509 Views
Re: thanks - 12/12/2010 12:49:52 PM 1219 Views
We're not in disagreement for the most part - 12/12/2010 04:23:02 PM 1207 Views
Re: We're not in disagreement for the most part - 12/12/2010 05:00:02 PM 1334 Views
I don't get the logic here... - 09/12/2010 09:41:18 PM 1348 Views
which was one of my first thoughts in reading the scene! *NM* - 09/12/2010 09:43:54 PM 906 Views
It doubles her strength. Nynaeve is only 50% stronger. So she only needs half of it to match Nynaeve - 09/12/2010 09:46:42 PM 1285 Views
And...? - 09/12/2010 09:51:57 PM 1297 Views
Personally, I thought it had something to do with not harming the babies. - 09/12/2010 10:01:10 PM 1224 Views
That was my interpretation too - 10/12/2010 04:36:38 AM 1260 Views
Re: That was my interpretation too - 10/12/2010 09:31:12 AM 1433 Views
what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 04:12:34 PM 1361 Views
The oaths proposal is after the jailhouse break in the timeline - 10/12/2010 04:31:12 PM 1246 Views
*Double post, please delete* *NM* - 10/12/2010 04:35:54 PM 761 Views
And... - 10/12/2010 04:32:28 PM 1266 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 04:41:25 PM 1278 Views
Re: what books are you reading? she's absolutely convinced until that scene - 10/12/2010 05:02:10 PM 1258 Views
and as a poster above points out the scene is AFTER she's stabbed - 10/12/2010 05:07:17 PM 1298 Views
Yes, I did know that. - 11/12/2010 04:06:00 PM 1301 Views
meant that response to go to Sidious ... sorry! - 11/12/2010 08:44:40 PM 1348 Views
Oops. *NM* - 10/12/2010 07:15:57 PM 821 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 08:22:21 PM 1224 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 08:33:25 PM 1307 Views
We have very little to go on with the FS strengths... - 10/12/2010 09:04:33 PM 1392 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 09:31:13 PM 1350 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 10/12/2010 10:50:20 PM 1333 Views
Re: More evidence that Elayne is much weaker than the Forsaken - 11/12/2010 07:29:30 AM 1493 Views
Help im new! - 13/12/2010 07:41:04 PM 1370 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. - 13/12/2010 09:56:45 PM 1486 Views
Re: More evidence you haven't been paying attention. - 13/12/2010 10:50:25 PM 1261 Views
How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? *NM* - 18/12/2010 02:53:22 PM 847 Views
Re: How is it that this the longest thread on this board? Is it even relevant in the least? - 18/12/2010 08:21:24 PM 1198 Views
Look at the topic. As if we needed evidence that Elayne is weaker than the Foresaken. - 19/12/2010 04:41:25 AM 1223 Views
you misread the topic - 19/12/2010 05:30:26 AM 1357 Views
But the debate is moronic because... - 19/12/2010 05:43:07 AM 1250 Views

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