About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
In tFoH:
He needed the angreal to, set wardings so large, but only just. He had thought that he was strong before, but Asmodean's teachings were making him stronger.
Rand basically says here that what he had thought of as "strong" before was nothing compared to where he was headed.
And this makes sense. We have mistakenly assumed that since Aginor burned out in EotW, Rand was stronger than him. But that makes no sense. Burning out is about not overdrawing. Aginor likely took in more because he was greedy for it, after 3000 years with no saidin, exactly as Ishamael said. It had nothing to do with being weak. On the other hand, Rand was weaker, and felt that even the amount he was drawing was enormous. Since this is the first time he channels consciously, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing in the text indicating he was as strong or stronger than Aginor. All that happened is that they struggled for control over who would draw from the well, and Agnor overdrew in the process.
As for Ishamael in the next three books, there is no reason to believe Rand was as strong as him. It wasn't like Ishy was throwing his full strength at Rand early on. He only did so when Rand was channeling with Callandor.
As for the fight with Asmodean, we have confirmation that sa'angreal increase your strength by a set amount. They not multipliers. Rand and Asmodean seemed equal with the Choedan Kal because they were each drawing exactly half its potential. Rand didn't have to be as strong as Asmodean for that to work.
I know this will be viewed as controversial by some, but at the Eye, I think Rand's effective strength was at Cadsuane's level, no more. By tSR, he had jumped beyond Egwene's (full potential) level, and only after Asmo started teaching him did he jump into Foresaken class. Thus, but the end of tFoH, I'd wager he was somewhere between Asmo and Rahvin. By aCoS, he was at Sammael's strength exactly, and by tPoD, he matches Aginor. I think WH and the Cleansing tipped him to his full potential.
He needed the angreal to, set wardings so large, but only just. He had thought that he was strong before, but Asmodean's teachings were making him stronger.
Rand basically says here that what he had thought of as "strong" before was nothing compared to where he was headed.
And this makes sense. We have mistakenly assumed that since Aginor burned out in EotW, Rand was stronger than him. But that makes no sense. Burning out is about not overdrawing. Aginor likely took in more because he was greedy for it, after 3000 years with no saidin, exactly as Ishamael said. It had nothing to do with being weak. On the other hand, Rand was weaker, and felt that even the amount he was drawing was enormous. Since this is the first time he channels consciously, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing in the text indicating he was as strong or stronger than Aginor. All that happened is that they struggled for control over who would draw from the well, and Agnor overdrew in the process.
As for Ishamael in the next three books, there is no reason to believe Rand was as strong as him. It wasn't like Ishy was throwing his full strength at Rand early on. He only did so when Rand was channeling with Callandor.
As for the fight with Asmodean, we have confirmation that sa'angreal increase your strength by a set amount. They not multipliers. Rand and Asmodean seemed equal with the Choedan Kal because they were each drawing exactly half its potential. Rand didn't have to be as strong as Asmodean for that to work.
I know this will be viewed as controversial by some, but at the Eye, I think Rand's effective strength was at Cadsuane's level, no more. By tSR, he had jumped beyond Egwene's (full potential) level, and only after Asmo started teaching him did he jump into Foresaken class. Thus, but the end of tFoH, I'd wager he was somewhere between Asmo and Rahvin. By aCoS, he was at Sammael's strength exactly, and by tPoD, he matches Aginor. I think WH and the Cleansing tipped him to his full potential.
I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women.
- 04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM
1910 Views
My thoughts
- 04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM
1320 Views
90 is REALLY high
- 04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM
1286 Views
Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation**
- 04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM
1279 Views
Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right.
- 07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM
1179 Views
He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye
- 07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM
1195 Views
No I don't think so
- 07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM
1059 Views
I'd say more than 80
- 07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM
1013 Views
81 then
- 07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM
930 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
- 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM
1001 Views
- 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM
1001 Views
Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels
- 07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM
1072 Views
Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off
- 07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM
1076 Views
I disagree.
- 07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM
967 Views
Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
- 07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM
1022 Views
Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
- 07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM
974 Views
he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin
- 07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM
1062 Views
Just to be a bitch
- 07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM
900 Views
He didn't face Asmodean he chased him and wrestled him over a sa'angreal.
- 10/12/2012 11:16:18 PM
1114 Views
Asmo hurled plenty of stuff at Rand during the "Chase" it wasnt all that much different
- 11/12/2012 03:16:36 AM
958 Views
I disagree with your plenty cause no one was TRYING to crush him. *NM*
- 11/12/2012 07:13:12 PM
570 Views
as I said before ... your interpretations are yours to have ... as are mine. *NM*
- 11/12/2012 09:16:36 PM
481 Views
think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90.
- 07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM
1008 Views
There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either
- 07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM
988 Views
the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM*
- 07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM
596 Views
that's what I just said *NM*
- 07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM
532 Views
that was not clear *NM*
- 07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM
622 Views
*shrug*
- 07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM
892 Views
Re: *shrug*
- 10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM
989 Views
If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps
- 11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM
1036 Views
in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and
- 11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM
946 Views
whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done
- 11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM
914 Views
About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
- 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
1141 Views
Perhaps
- 08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM
962 Views
Re: Perhaps
- 08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM
1024 Views
Like I said ... Could be
- 08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM
999 Views
I disagree...
- 08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM
965 Views
Re: I disagree...
- 08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM
898 Views
I disagree again!
- 08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM
962 Views
Probably
- 08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM
1005 Views
Re: Probably
- 09/12/2012 07:51:59 PM
1013 Views
Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand
- 08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM
1032 Views
And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
- 08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM
947 Views
Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
- 08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM
1018 Views
Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig
- 08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM
1003 Views
I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
- 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM
1134 Views
Re: I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
- 08/12/2012 02:54:08 PM
926 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
- 11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM
997 Views

*NM*