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About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
In tFoH:

He needed the angreal to, set wardings so large, but only just. He had thought that he was strong before, but Asmodean's teachings were making him stronger.

Rand basically says here that what he had thought of as "strong" before was nothing compared to where he was headed.

And this makes sense. We have mistakenly assumed that since Aginor burned out in EotW, Rand was stronger than him. But that makes no sense. Burning out is about not overdrawing. Aginor likely took in more because he was greedy for it, after 3000 years with no saidin, exactly as Ishamael said. It had nothing to do with being weak. On the other hand, Rand was weaker, and felt that even the amount he was drawing was enormous. Since this is the first time he channels consciously, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing in the text indicating he was as strong or stronger than Aginor. All that happened is that they struggled for control over who would draw from the well, and Agnor overdrew in the process.

As for Ishamael in the next three books, there is no reason to believe Rand was as strong as him. It wasn't like Ishy was throwing his full strength at Rand early on. He only did so when Rand was channeling with Callandor.

As for the fight with Asmodean, we have confirmation that sa'angreal increase your strength by a set amount. They not multipliers. Rand and Asmodean seemed equal with the Choedan Kal because they were each drawing exactly half its potential. Rand didn't have to be as strong as Asmodean for that to work.

I know this will be viewed as controversial by some, but at the Eye, I think Rand's effective strength was at Cadsuane's level, no more. By tSR, he had jumped beyond Egwene's (full potential) level, and only after Asmo started teaching him did he jump into Foresaken class. Thus, but the end of tFoH, I'd wager he was somewhere between Asmo and Rahvin. By aCoS, he was at Sammael's strength exactly, and by tPoD, he matches Aginor. I think WH and the Cleansing tipped him to his full potential.
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I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women. - 04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM 1856 Views
My thoughts - 04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM 1277 Views
90 is REALLY high - 04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM 1243 Views
Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation** - 04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM 1220 Views
Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right. - 07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM 1126 Views
He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye - 07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM 1126 Views
No I don't think so - 07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM 1012 Views
I'd say more than 80 - 07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM 964 Views
81 then - 07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM 892 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM 962 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 10:14:53 PM 984 Views
there were more like MILLIONS of Forsaken during these times - 07/12/2012 10:30:34 PM 973 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM 802 Views
Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels - 07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM 1029 Views
Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off - 07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM 1018 Views
I disagree. - 07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM 913 Views
Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM 961 Views
Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM 924 Views
he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin - 07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM 1019 Views
Just to be a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM 859 Views
you don't actually have to tell us all you are a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:36:25 PM 1008 Views
*NM* - 08/12/2012 06:22:49 AM 841 Views
think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90. - 07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM 965 Views
There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either - 07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM 942 Views
the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM* - 07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM 576 Views
that's what I just said *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM 511 Views
that was not clear *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM 598 Views
*shrug* - 07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM 844 Views
Re: *shrug* - 10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM 950 Views
If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps - 11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM 984 Views
in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and - 11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM 889 Views
whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done - 11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM 867 Views
- 17/12/2012 11:22:55 PM 1167 Views
About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM 1100 Views
Perhaps - 08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM 913 Views
Re: Perhaps - 08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM 976 Views
Like I said ... Could be - 08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM 961 Views
I disagree... - 08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM 901 Views
Re: I disagree... - 08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM 843 Views
I disagree again! - 08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM 922 Views
Probably - 08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM 952 Views
Re: Probably - 09/12/2012 07:51:59 PM 965 Views
Not really - 09/12/2012 10:13:07 PM 890 Views
Re: Not really - 10/12/2012 01:05:54 AM 904 Views
Re: Not really - 13/12/2012 03:58:48 PM 989 Views
I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 08/12/2012 06:18:45 AM 962 Views
We're essentially saying the same thing now - 08/12/2012 02:37:17 PM 912 Views
Re: I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 28/12/2012 08:08:21 PM 835 Views
Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand - 08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM 981 Views
And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM 909 Views
Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM 966 Views
Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig - 08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM 949 Views
Oops, double post. *NM* - 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM 585 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM 949 Views
Re: Rand v Aginor - 16/12/2012 01:46:08 PM 900 Views
Not a bad theory and I've read it before - 16/12/2012 07:42:31 PM 850 Views

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