You're mixing things up needlessly. Knowing to write and writing well are different things. They're obviously connected things, but they're not interchangeable. Same with weaves. The Foresaken have a wider base of knowledge than someone like Egwene. But that's distinct from how well they can perform the weaves they know.
Not really ... the author himself stated that dueling etc... was dependent on a number of factors including Talents and such. All of these things which are NOT strength related will determine what an individual channeler is capable of and cannot be separated from that individual. Egwene (as an individual) may be a much more potent duelist than Metarra (let's say she is strong in Water, but weak in Fire) because of her lack of a flow weakness. Their strength is the same, but Egwene's flow affinities give her more options in a duel. Fact is there are pieces involved that cannot be taken out of the equation and thus factor into the broader "skill" category rather than "strength" category.
That's where I disagree. Strength is only one aspect. Just because someone is stronger by a little doesn't mean the duels are a write-off.
All I am saying is that strength gives you an inherent edge in a duel. The larger the strength margin is the larger the skill margin needs to be in order to bridge the gap. Egwene's level is far enough off of the very top that an individual at this level will need a large skill advantage to reliably defeat a Forsaken level individual. I don't see the gap between Egwene and Lanfear as insignificant. I think the step to Lanfear is about a 25% increase for Egwene ... that's about equal to the full strength of a woman like Daigain or even new Siuan level IMO.
If you were to look at it from a physical fight stand point Egwene would be a 6'0" (72" ) tall boxer facing Lanfear who would be 7'6" (90" ) tall boxer. While it's not impossible for Egwene to win if she has other physical attributes that make up the gap, like speed or denser muscle mass, Lanfear has a significant starting value advantage.
You're not getting my point. Of course Demandred at 5x can win. The issue at hand is that even with only somewhat less skill than Rand, 5x strength isn't enough to guarantee Demandred's victory. To use your point from above, if you are laying bets on a winner Rand is NOT the long shot everytime, even if he's five times weaker than Demandred+angreal. What does this say about Egwene, who's more than 2/3rds as strong the Foresaken? Does she need an enormous skill boos to beat them? No. Since the strength gap between her and the Foresaken is less than between Rand and boosted Demandred, the increased skill she would need to display to be a challenge is also lower. In fact, at her strength level, if she's very skilled, and someone like Graendal faces her and is equally skilled, she'd still be a major threat. Graendal would obviously have some added strength as a bonus, but never enough to be one sided.
That also explains why Granedal feels that even with her weak angreal, any of her opponents will only be surprised, not overwhelmed. Even if it boosts her to 1.5x her strength, that gap is still more than between Egwene and the Foresaken. It still isn't enough to let her win without struggle.
That also explains why Granedal feels that even with her weak angreal, any of her opponents will only be surprised, not overwhelmed. Even if it boosts her to 1.5x her strength, that gap is still more than between Egwene and the Foresaken. It still isn't enough to let her win without struggle.
I disagree ... at 5x the strength Rand loses every time to Demandred unless Rand has the element of surprise or something completely random happens. Graendal's angreal is extremely weak, it could be a 10% or a 50% boost for all we know. But even a 10% increase for Graendal v. another Forsaken is probably going to give her an insurmountable edge in a direct confrontation ... which would indeed be a "nasty surprise" to anyone foolish enough to attack her without being aware of her extra strength. In fact, her commentary in this passage very much supports that skill overcomes strength in the right proportions ...
Consider if Lanfear who is slightly stronger but probably slightly less skilled ... we know they are close enough in strength that Graendal was prepared to fight Lanfear without an angreal, so the assumption is Graendal is slightly more skilled to keep it close enough that she didn't just back off or run when faced with a superior opponent ... Lanfear would be attacking Graendal with the expectation that her edge in strength would win her the day ... only to find out that Graendal is in fact now the stronger individual ... *Nasty Surprise* regardless of a 10% increase or a 50% increase as Lanfear would suddenly be facing both a stronger and more skilled opponent.
Demandred wanting a sa'angreal is just a way of saying he wanted there to be no duel ... just an overwhelming smack down on LTT!
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women.
04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM
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My thoughts
04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM
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90 is REALLY high
04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM
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Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation**
04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM
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Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right.
07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM
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He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye
07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM
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No I don't think so
07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM
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I'd say more than 80
07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM
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81 then
07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM
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and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM
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Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels
07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM
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Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off
07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM
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I disagree.
07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM
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Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM
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Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM
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he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin
07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM
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Just to be a bitch
07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM
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He didn't face Asmodean he chased him and wrestled him over a sa'angreal.
10/12/2012 11:16:18 PM
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Asmo hurled plenty of stuff at Rand during the "Chase" it wasnt all that much different
11/12/2012 03:16:36 AM
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I disagree with your plenty cause no one was TRYING to crush him. *NM*
11/12/2012 07:13:12 PM
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as I said before ... your interpretations are yours to have ... as are mine. *NM*
11/12/2012 09:16:36 PM
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think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90.
07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM
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There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either
07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM
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the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM*
07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM
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that's what I just said *NM*
07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM
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that was not clear *NM*
07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM
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*shrug*
07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM
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Re: *shrug*
10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM
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If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps
11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM
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in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and
11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM
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whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done
11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM
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About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
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Perhaps
08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM
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Re: Perhaps
08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM
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Like I said ... Could be
08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM
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I disagree...
08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM
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Re: I disagree...
08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM
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I disagree again!
08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM
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Probably
08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM
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Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand
08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM
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And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM
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Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM
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Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig
08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM
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I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM
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Re: I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 02:54:08 PM
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Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM
- 692 Views