Active Users:275 Time:11/05/2024 05:16:37 PM
Re: Not really fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 10/12/2012 01:05:54 AM

Not true. Rand, Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha, Nynaeve and before them Moiraine and Siuan all showed a natural level of inherent skill with the OP. This is what allows these people to become innovative with the Power while others simply learn weaves and practice them. Skill is a combination of what you know, how you use it and your natural gifts with the OP. Talents enter into this as well, there is more to it than simply knowing more weaves than someone else. These things are inherently related to one another in a duel. Some individuals seem to learn how to use the Power with great ease, while others lag ... this MAY be related to strength in the Power as some here have suggested, but this could be as easily explained as a storyline device RJ employed to make his main characters get to where they needed to be in a short time.

You're mixing things up needlessly. Knowing to write and writing well are different things. They're obviously connected things, but they're not interchangeable. Same with weaves. The Foresaken have a wider base of knowledge than someone like Egwene. But that's distinct from how well they can perform the weaves they know.

Of course not every time. but if you are laying bets on a winner Egwene is the long shot everytime ...

That's where I disagree. Strength is only one aspect. Just because someone is stronger by a little doesn't mean the duels are a write-off.
don't mix up the strength level "Egwene" with the actual individual. I am attributing her strength in all 5 Powers as part of her skill. This bonus will naturally help her in almost every instance since she will almost always have a broader array of weaves at her disposal when facing another channeler. For instance, if she faces a woman of greater strengths, but is not as strong in Earth and Fire Egwene is going to have an advantage with many offensive weaves that has nothing to do with strength and everything to do with inherent skill.

Fair enough, on not mixing Egwene with Egwene-level.
Do you really believe that Demandred with at 5x Rand strength can't win? A sa'angreal simply guarantees Demandred will have an overwhelming strength advantage. Something he will want rather than face any chance of failure ... not much different than Moghedien.

You're not getting my point. Of course Demandred at 5x can win. The issue at hand is that even with only somewhat less skill than Rand, 5x strength isn't enough to guarantee Demandred's victory. To use your point from above, if you are laying bets on a winner Rand is NOT the long shot everytime, even if he's five times weaker than Demandred+angreal. What does this say about Egwene, who's more than 2/3rds as strong the Foresaken? Does she need an enormous skill boos to beat them? No. Since the strength gap between her and the Foresaken is less than between Rand and boosted Demandred, the increased skill she would need to display to be a challenge is also lower. In fact, at her strength level, if she's very skilled, and someone like Graendal faces her and is equally skilled, she'd still be a major threat. Graendal would obviously have some added strength as a bonus, but never enough to be one sided.

That also explains why Granedal feels that even with her weak angreal, any of her opponents will only be surprised, not overwhelmed. Even if it boosts her to 1.5x her strength, that gap is still more than between Egwene and the Foresaken. It still isn't enough to let her win without struggle.
Reply to message
I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women. - 04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM 1621 Views
My thoughts - 04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM 1014 Views
90 is REALLY high - 04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM 984 Views
Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation** - 04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM 931 Views
Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right. - 07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM 889 Views
He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye - 07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM 817 Views
No I don't think so - 07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM 752 Views
I'd say more than 80 - 07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM 709 Views
81 then - 07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM 635 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM 729 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 10:14:53 PM 751 Views
there were more like MILLIONS of Forsaken during these times - 07/12/2012 10:30:34 PM 686 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM 528 Views
Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels - 07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM 756 Views
Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off - 07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM 722 Views
I disagree. - 07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM 651 Views
Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM 661 Views
Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM 650 Views
he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin - 07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM 749 Views
Just to be a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM 590 Views
you don't actually have to tell us all you are a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:36:25 PM 760 Views
*NM* - 08/12/2012 06:22:49 AM 615 Views
think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90. - 07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM 717 Views
There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either - 07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM 722 Views
the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM* - 07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM 467 Views
that's what I just said *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM 396 Views
that was not clear *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM 487 Views
*shrug* - 07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM 597 Views
Re: *shrug* - 10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM 702 Views
If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps - 11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM 752 Views
in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and - 11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM 650 Views
whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done - 11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM 622 Views
- 17/12/2012 11:22:55 PM 863 Views
About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM 848 Views
Perhaps - 08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM 670 Views
Re: Perhaps - 08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM 734 Views
Like I said ... Could be - 08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM 724 Views
I disagree... - 08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM 663 Views
Re: I disagree... - 08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM 610 Views
I disagree again! - 08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM 679 Views
Probably - 08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM 715 Views
Re: Probably - 09/12/2012 07:51:59 PM 698 Views
Not really - 09/12/2012 10:13:07 PM 623 Views
Re: Not really - 10/12/2012 01:05:54 AM 646 Views
Re: Not really - 13/12/2012 03:58:48 PM 726 Views
I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 08/12/2012 06:18:45 AM 700 Views
We're essentially saying the same thing now - 08/12/2012 02:37:17 PM 623 Views
Re: I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 28/12/2012 08:08:21 PM 608 Views
Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand - 08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM 655 Views
And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM 676 Views
Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM 640 Views
Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig - 08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM 712 Views
Oops, double post. *NM* - 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM 488 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM 691 Views
Re: Rand v Aginor - 16/12/2012 01:46:08 PM 661 Views
Not a bad theory and I've read it before - 16/12/2012 07:42:31 PM 615 Views

Reply to Message