About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
In tFoH:
He needed the angreal to, set wardings so large, but only just. He had thought that he was strong before, but Asmodean's teachings were making him stronger.
Rand basically says here that what he had thought of as "strong" before was nothing compared to where he was headed.
And this makes sense. We have mistakenly assumed that since Aginor burned out in EotW, Rand was stronger than him. But that makes no sense. Burning out is about not overdrawing. Aginor likely took in more because he was greedy for it, after 3000 years with no saidin, exactly as Ishamael said. It had nothing to do with being weak. On the other hand, Rand was weaker, and felt that even the amount he was drawing was enormous. Since this is the first time he channels consciously, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing in the text indicating he was as strong or stronger than Aginor. All that happened is that they struggled for control over who would draw from the well, and Agnor overdrew in the process.
As for Ishamael in the next three books, there is no reason to believe Rand was as strong as him. It wasn't like Ishy was throwing his full strength at Rand early on. He only did so when Rand was channeling with Callandor.
As for the fight with Asmodean, we have confirmation that sa'angreal increase your strength by a set amount. They not multipliers. Rand and Asmodean seemed equal with the Choedan Kal because they were each drawing exactly half its potential. Rand didn't have to be as strong as Asmodean for that to work.
I know this will be viewed as controversial by some, but at the Eye, I think Rand's effective strength was at Cadsuane's level, no more. By tSR, he had jumped beyond Egwene's (full potential) level, and only after Asmo started teaching him did he jump into Foresaken class. Thus, but the end of tFoH, I'd wager he was somewhere between Asmo and Rahvin. By aCoS, he was at Sammael's strength exactly, and by tPoD, he matches Aginor. I think WH and the Cleansing tipped him to his full potential.
He needed the angreal to, set wardings so large, but only just. He had thought that he was strong before, but Asmodean's teachings were making him stronger.
Rand basically says here that what he had thought of as "strong" before was nothing compared to where he was headed.
And this makes sense. We have mistakenly assumed that since Aginor burned out in EotW, Rand was stronger than him. But that makes no sense. Burning out is about not overdrawing. Aginor likely took in more because he was greedy for it, after 3000 years with no saidin, exactly as Ishamael said. It had nothing to do with being weak. On the other hand, Rand was weaker, and felt that even the amount he was drawing was enormous. Since this is the first time he channels consciously, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing in the text indicating he was as strong or stronger than Aginor. All that happened is that they struggled for control over who would draw from the well, and Agnor overdrew in the process.
As for Ishamael in the next three books, there is no reason to believe Rand was as strong as him. It wasn't like Ishy was throwing his full strength at Rand early on. He only did so when Rand was channeling with Callandor.
As for the fight with Asmodean, we have confirmation that sa'angreal increase your strength by a set amount. They not multipliers. Rand and Asmodean seemed equal with the Choedan Kal because they were each drawing exactly half its potential. Rand didn't have to be as strong as Asmodean for that to work.
I know this will be viewed as controversial by some, but at the Eye, I think Rand's effective strength was at Cadsuane's level, no more. By tSR, he had jumped beyond Egwene's (full potential) level, and only after Asmo started teaching him did he jump into Foresaken class. Thus, but the end of tFoH, I'd wager he was somewhere between Asmo and Rahvin. By aCoS, he was at Sammael's strength exactly, and by tPoD, he matches Aginor. I think WH and the Cleansing tipped him to his full potential.
I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women.
04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM
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My thoughts
04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM
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90 is REALLY high
04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM
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Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation**
04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM
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Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right.
07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM
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He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye
07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM
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No I don't think so
07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM
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I'd say more than 80
07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM
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81 then
07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM
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and that's just YOUR theory Sidius
07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM
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Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels
07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM
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Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off
07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM
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I disagree.
07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM
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Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM
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Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world
07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM
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he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin
07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM
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Just to be a bitch
07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM
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He didn't face Asmodean he chased him and wrestled him over a sa'angreal.
10/12/2012 11:16:18 PM
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Asmo hurled plenty of stuff at Rand during the "Chase" it wasnt all that much different
11/12/2012 03:16:36 AM
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I disagree with your plenty cause no one was TRYING to crush him. *NM*
11/12/2012 07:13:12 PM
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as I said before ... your interpretations are yours to have ... as are mine. *NM*
11/12/2012 09:16:36 PM
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think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90.
07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM
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There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either
07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM
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the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM*
07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM
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that's what I just said *NM*
07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM
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that was not clear *NM*
07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM
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*shrug*
07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM
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Re: *shrug*
10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM
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If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps
11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM
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in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and
11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM
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whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done
11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM
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About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
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Perhaps
08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM
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Re: Perhaps
08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM
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Like I said ... Could be
08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM
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I disagree...
08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM
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Re: I disagree...
08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM
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I disagree again!
08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM
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Probably
08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM
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Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand
08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM
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And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM
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Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed
08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM
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Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig
08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM
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I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM
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Re: I don't think they could have had a clear idea of his strength eary in the series...
08/12/2012 02:54:08 PM
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Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored:
11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM
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