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About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM
In tFoH:

He needed the angreal to, set wardings so large, but only just. He had thought that he was strong before, but Asmodean's teachings were making him stronger.

Rand basically says here that what he had thought of as "strong" before was nothing compared to where he was headed.

And this makes sense. We have mistakenly assumed that since Aginor burned out in EotW, Rand was stronger than him. But that makes no sense. Burning out is about not overdrawing. Aginor likely took in more because he was greedy for it, after 3000 years with no saidin, exactly as Ishamael said. It had nothing to do with being weak. On the other hand, Rand was weaker, and felt that even the amount he was drawing was enormous. Since this is the first time he channels consciously, that makes perfect sense. There's nothing in the text indicating he was as strong or stronger than Aginor. All that happened is that they struggled for control over who would draw from the well, and Agnor overdrew in the process.

As for Ishamael in the next three books, there is no reason to believe Rand was as strong as him. It wasn't like Ishy was throwing his full strength at Rand early on. He only did so when Rand was channeling with Callandor.

As for the fight with Asmodean, we have confirmation that sa'angreal increase your strength by a set amount. They not multipliers. Rand and Asmodean seemed equal with the Choedan Kal because they were each drawing exactly half its potential. Rand didn't have to be as strong as Asmodean for that to work.

I know this will be viewed as controversial by some, but at the Eye, I think Rand's effective strength was at Cadsuane's level, no more. By tSR, he had jumped beyond Egwene's (full potential) level, and only after Asmo started teaching him did he jump into Foresaken class. Thus, but the end of tFoH, I'd wager he was somewhere between Asmo and Rahvin. By aCoS, he was at Sammael's strength exactly, and by tPoD, he matches Aginor. I think WH and the Cleansing tipped him to his full potential.
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I really hate to bring up strength in the OP, but thankfully it doesn't regard Egwene or any women. - 04/12/2012 06:01:45 AM 1982 Views
My thoughts - 04/12/2012 07:15:44 AM 1387 Views
90 is REALLY high - 04/12/2012 07:25:15 AM 1357 Views
Couple of things ... **reminder that this is a lot of speculation** - 04/12/2012 04:29:50 PM 1347 Views
Narishma is definitely stronger, you're right. - 07/12/2012 03:00:53 AM 1242 Views
He was stronger than Aginor in order to channel the power of the Eye - 07/12/2012 03:00:10 PM 1276 Views
No I don't think so - 07/12/2012 04:13:48 PM 1135 Views
I'd say more than 80 - 07/12/2012 07:07:32 PM 1078 Views
81 then - 07/12/2012 08:11:34 PM 1005 Views
and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 09:13:42 PM 1067 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 07/12/2012 10:14:53 PM 1147 Views
there were more like MILLIONS of Forsaken during these times - 07/12/2012 10:30:34 PM 1107 Views
Re: and that's just YOUR theory Sidius - 28/12/2012 08:44:51 PM 930 Views
Aginors defeat could be a result of multiple factors. So can Ishmaels - 07/12/2012 01:24:18 PM 1159 Views
Regardless, Rand was clearly in the same strength category when Aginor and he faced off - 07/12/2012 03:03:04 PM 1156 Views
I disagree. - 07/12/2012 06:55:43 PM 1040 Views
Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:12:44 PM 1094 Views
Re: Aginor burned out trying to use the Eye in the real world - 07/12/2012 07:51:37 PM 1056 Views
he faced Asmodean strength for strength before Rahvin - 07/12/2012 09:23:42 PM 1138 Views
Just to be a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:17:11 PM 965 Views
you don't actually have to tell us all you are a bitch - 07/12/2012 10:36:25 PM 1146 Views
*NM* - 08/12/2012 06:22:49 AM 959 Views
think youre misjudgjng the benefits of the link. they dont have to add up to 90. - 07/12/2012 12:34:59 PM 1103 Views
There is also no why to tell if Flinn hit Demandred with all the strength available to him either - 07/12/2012 03:05:38 PM 1083 Views
the "circle" was stronger but the individuals weren't *NM* - 07/12/2012 06:58:38 PM 632 Views
that's what I just said *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:23:34 PM 574 Views
that was not clear *NM* - 07/12/2012 07:43:54 PM 670 Views
*shrug* - 07/12/2012 09:25:00 PM 959 Views
Re: *shrug* - 10/12/2012 11:27:42 PM 1054 Views
If I had said the individuals in the circle added to Dmandreds strength perhaps - 11/12/2012 03:28:23 AM 1105 Views
in the context of this discussion you did not distinguish between the effective strength and - 11/12/2012 07:10:48 PM 1023 Views
whatever ... didn't think it was necessary ... and with that I'm done - 11/12/2012 09:16:03 PM 989 Views
- 17/12/2012 11:22:55 PM 1304 Views
About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 08/12/2012 12:37:38 AM 1215 Views
Perhaps - 08/12/2012 01:01:21 AM 1028 Views
Re: Perhaps - 08/12/2012 02:06:39 AM 1097 Views
Like I said ... Could be - 08/12/2012 02:33:43 AM 1077 Views
I disagree... - 08/12/2012 04:53:09 AM 1036 Views
Re: I disagree... - 08/12/2012 05:20:08 AM 969 Views
I disagree again! - 08/12/2012 05:49:15 AM 1027 Views
Probably - 08/12/2012 02:46:15 PM 1074 Views
Re: Probably - 09/12/2012 07:51:59 PM 1080 Views
Not really - 09/12/2012 10:13:07 PM 1015 Views
Re: Not really - 10/12/2012 01:05:54 AM 1043 Views
Re: Not really - 13/12/2012 03:58:48 PM 1112 Views
I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 08/12/2012 06:18:45 AM 1096 Views
We're essentially saying the same thing now - 08/12/2012 02:37:17 PM 1039 Views
Re: I don't think the Forsaken are good examples - 28/12/2012 08:08:21 PM 957 Views
Always thought the forsaken didn't really know much about Rand - 08/12/2012 02:38:08 AM 1110 Views
And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 02:43:15 AM 1023 Views
Re: And they had plenty of spies around him and clearly knew that he managed - 08/12/2012 05:34:54 AM 1097 Views
Who can say. Graendal wraps them so deep in compulsion that she can dig - 08/12/2012 05:42:39 AM 1090 Views
Oops, double post. *NM* - 08/12/2012 09:34:36 AM 640 Views
Re: About Rand's strength... an important quote is being ignored: - 11/12/2012 11:36:51 PM 1089 Views
Re: Rand v Aginor - 16/12/2012 01:46:08 PM 1028 Views
Not a bad theory and I've read it before - 16/12/2012 07:42:31 PM 964 Views

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