Active Users:309 Time:29/03/2024 02:56:57 PM
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM

Well anyone above ++6 would be massively powerful by any standard, even during the AOL. It also seems that the general strength in the Tower dwindled since the Breaking, so it's likely the Reds were even stronger then.

Most likely there were more powerful women in the AB years, but that doesn't mean there was a big swing in the percentage strong women represented as the Tower had many more Aes Sedia then too. Sure there would be a few women in the top 10 levels (maybe even 100+), but it had been nearly 1000 years since the AoL when the first False Dragon came on to the scene (at least the first one of note). Suddenly coming across a man at such high levels would be unexpected since the Reds had already had hundreds of years to thin out the gene pool. By the time of Amalasan and Stonebow the Tower had certainly declined.


Nynaeve seems to imply that Logain could have broken free if he wanted to, and Siuan pretty much said the same until they had a full six sisters to shield him. We know for a fact that some of the False Dragons could not be taken by six women, and killed and gentled some of them.

ACoS (The Sending) - What I do not understand is how they captured him … Perrin, both Elora and Ledar say that when Aes Sedai find a man of great power, they always gather thirteen to take him… they wrote of Yurian Stoneboww and Guaire Amalasan. Of Raolin Darksbane and Davian, as well, but the others are who worry me… Those were four of the most powerful among the men who had called themselves the Dragon Reborn … Six Aes Sedai tried to capture Stonebow, and he killed three and captured the others himself. Six tried to take Amalasan; he killed one and stilled two more. Surely Rand is as strong as Stonebow or Amalasan.

The False Dragons also usually took time to capture and I surrounded themselves with vast armies. I think many of them would have come close to their potential. Both Taim and Logain did for certain. Rand was probably sitting somewhere between ++6 and ++2 during LoC.


I don't think there was any question that Logain could have broken free of her shield, but let's face it that's not one of Nynaeve's strong points

Rand Stilled 3 women at Dumai's Wells but aside from that we learned something of note in the way Aes Sedai operate with a Powerful male Channelers. They don't actually link to shield them. It's very clear from Rand's exploration of the shield that each woman was holding a separate part of the whole, coming together in the "soft spots" that later were knotted and Rand figured out how to break free of. When women link it all becomes one flow from one individual leading (like the Bowl of the Winds circle). This clearly was not the case with the women shielding Rand at Dumai's Wells and likely was how Aes Sedai tradition worked for False Dragons. Possibly they moved to this system because so many False Dragons over the centuries had armies that would need to be fought off and an Aes Sedai in a link can't function as an independent Channeler and they knew they may have needed to serve multiple functions.

I also think it's clear from the text, as well as from an RJ quote (IIRC), that men are more difficult for women to shield than other women are, so a level 1 woman would theoretically struggle to shield a level 1 man whereas we know a somewhat weaker woman can maintain a shield on a stronger woman (i.e. a Level 8 woman can maintain a shield on a Level 1 woman)

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3158 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 861 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 835 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 970 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 882 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 978 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 983 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1165 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 824 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 952 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1006 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 938 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1032 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 971 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1130 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1074 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1099 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 899 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1137 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 956 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 832 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1095 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 949 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1046 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1109 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 902 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1043 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 909 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 830 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 857 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 855 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 890 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 936 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 853 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1051 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 870 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 823 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 854 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 545 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 896 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 923 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 824 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 863 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 840 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 595 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 870 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 834 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1031 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 906 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 921 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 973 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 969 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 902 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 904 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 972 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 811 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 833 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1026 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 880 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 953 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 999 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 828 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 864 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 831 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 804 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 839 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 862 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1047 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 982 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1036 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1211 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 880 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1069 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 770 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 817 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 770 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 785 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1042 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 897 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1223 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 789 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1003 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 838 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 756 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 778 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 837 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 816 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 801 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 570 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 860 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 727 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 874 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 484 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 519 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 861 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 830 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 808 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 792 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 770 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 737 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 768 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 804 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 745 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 769 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 862 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 767 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 859 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 955 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 805 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 835 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 791 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 880 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 775 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 825 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 824 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 785 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 797 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 770 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 788 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 719 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 824 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 525 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 788 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 772 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 844 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 790 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 837 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 786 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 718 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 786 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 753 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 819 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 737 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 922 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 859 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 870 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 798 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 760 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 797 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 920 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 825 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 817 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 929 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 969 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 994 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 748 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 910 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 817 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 757 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 892 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 847 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 708 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 866 Views

Reply to Message