Active Users:2260 Time:18/06/2026 04:17:31 PM
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

View original post
View original post
First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3704 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1402 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1373 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1553 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1436 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1576 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1642 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1725 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1422 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1546 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1558 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1553 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1559 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1579 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1762 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1704 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1694 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1510 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1757 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1603 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1432 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1722 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1543 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1658 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1710 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1470 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1592 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1484 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1407 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1430 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1423 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1493 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1501 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1412 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1766 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1432 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1411 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1416 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 852 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1441 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1460 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1374 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1426 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1432 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 934 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1413 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1409 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1595 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1485 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1506 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1545 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1549 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1472 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1513 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1539 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1340 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1413 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1578 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1408 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1522 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1571 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1376 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1489 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1325 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1348 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1412 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1417 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1566 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1567 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1578 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1930 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1425 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1751 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1342 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1370 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1372 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1293 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1645 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1336 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1448 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1924 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1353 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1560 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1395 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1285 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1330 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1403 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1353 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1365 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 871 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1441 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1255 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1441 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 791 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 820 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1422 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1408 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1332 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1330 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1295 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1282 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1326 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1401 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1325 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1314 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1382 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1296 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1435 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1499 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1412 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1437 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1308 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1407 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1302 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1395 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1378 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1309 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1346 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1310 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1339 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1287 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1422 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 822 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1372 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1292 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1433 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1371 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1346 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1327 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1267 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1312 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1355 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1330 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1312 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1458 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1395 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1496 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1351 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1345 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1391 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1496 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1511 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1373 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1665 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1577 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1552 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1332 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1513 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1388 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1296 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1412 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1411 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1282 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1502 Views

Reply to Message