Active Users:1326 Time:24/09/2026 03:30:53 PM
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM

View original post
View original post
First I'll start by saying I think these women are all about 10 levels too strong from the way they were depicted in the books. With the possible exception of Liandrin herself, who could plausibly be as strong as was outlined in the Companion.

Liandrin, Red, Level 14, age 36, Tarabon, captive to the Seanchan

Marillin Gemalphin, Brown, level 15, age 152, Andoran, freed by Mellar fate unknown
Eldrith Jhondar, Brown, level 16, age 116, Amadician, killed by Mellar

Falion Bhoda, White, level 17, age 127, Kandori, Killed by Aviendha
Rianna Andomeran, White, level 21, age 76, Kandori, Captive in Stedding Sholoon

Ispan Shefar, Blue, level 17, age 109, Taraboner, Killed by Careane
Berylla Naron, Blue, level 27, age 67, Illianer, MIA since Moghedien gave her orders

Temaile Kinderode, Gray, level 17, age 57, Cairheinin, Killed by Mellar
Joiya Byir, Gray, level 28, age 171, Andoran, Killed by Slayer

Asne Zeramene, Green, level 18, age 163, Saldaean, Killed by Windfinders
Jeaine Caide, Green, level 18, age 88, Domani, Killed by Thom Merrilin

Chesmal Emery, Yellow, level 18, age 137, Ghealdanin, Killed by Elayne
Amico Nagoyin, Yellow, level 27, age 32, Arafellin, Killed by Slayer


Why do you think they are too strong by 10 levels? What depiction? They were always depicted as average sort of Aes Sedai and their acts and abilities reflected such. Liandrin was mentioned as the strongest - I was surprised at 14 but it's not outrageous.


First Liandrin, was the strongest, yet she was never really mentioned as being particularly strong by Aes Sedai standards, so a placement at 14 was surprising to me, but as I said in the original post about this it's still plausible, more so given that her main role as an antagonist was in the earliest part of the series when strength was not as clearly defined. I simply got the impression that she was more of a middle level Aes Sedai. Middling Aes Sedai are women like Aeldene, on level 27 not level 14-18, that's the providence of "strong" Aes Sedai.

As for the others, their strength was universally dismissed when it came up. To find out that 9 out of the 13 are strong enough to Travel and that at least 3 of them are in the very top levels (16+) of Aes Sedai strength and 3 others at level 17 is a glaring mismatch to how they were seen in the books. On several occasions we are told that the girls are already stronger than any of them in raw power, something patently false in the early stages for Elayne and Egwene. Neither of whom are as strong as Liandrin's stated level 14 until at least the end of TSR. Only Amico, Joiya and Berylla seem in the range of how they were described in the books IMO. And given Verin's reaction to Katerine's escape "a Red of her strength", Katerine is weaker than Liandrin and the same as Marillin? Seems out of sync. Also Elayne, while often stupidly brave, now looks like an even bigger fool for rushing in to face such powerful Aes Sedai, everyone of the one left was strong enough to Travel and then some ...

Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 11/12/2015 at 08:01:21 PM
Reply to message
Sortable, searchable file of Channelers - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3754 Views
Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1487 Views
Re: Outstanding job - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1458 Views
Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1618 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1510 Views
Quick Question - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1644 Views
Nope - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1727 Views
They do say it - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1802 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1498 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1603 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1623 Views
Well maybe - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1641 Views
Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1622 Views
I agree - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1653 Views
Re: I agree - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1824 Views
It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1775 Views
Re: It's always been confusing - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1786 Views
I wholeheartedly agree - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1574 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1826 Views
Morgase - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1681 Views
I agree with you on this - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1518 Views
Re: Morgase - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1808 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1610 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1730 Views
Re: Well maybe - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1779 Views
Probably - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1551 Views
Re: Probably - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1660 Views
Indeed - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1551 Views
Re: Indeed - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1480 Views
close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1505 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1489 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1567 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1571 Views
um, no - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1488 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1825 Views
That's on you... - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1496 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1482 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1485 Views
LOL *NM* - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 894 Views
Some points - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1512 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1527 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1436 Views
Great job - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1501 Views
Re: Great job - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1508 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 976 Views
Some questions - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1478 Views
Re: Some questions - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1484 Views
Re: Some questions - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1673 Views
That's why I added another column to it - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1566 Views
Some more - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1583 Views
Re: Some more - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1617 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1629 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1550 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1593 Views
Re: Some more - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1627 Views
Re: Some more - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1404 Views
You said this much better than I did - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1490 Views
I think the men are much too strong - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1655 Views
Yes - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1471 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1583 Views
Re: Yes - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1639 Views
Re: Yes - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1444 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1571 Views
Shielding - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1431 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1439 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1506 Views
seriously! - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1488 Views
Who should defer to whom? - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1631 Views
Interesting... - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1634 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1670 Views
Good job - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1985 Views
Some questions - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1488 Views
Can't offer much - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1810 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1415 Views
Re: Some questions - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1448 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1435 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1364 Views
Re: Some questions - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1755 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1408 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1521 Views
Sort of. - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1990 Views
Makes sense - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1424 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1636 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1478 Views
Probably something along those lines - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1355 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1404 Views
Moiraine... - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1470 Views
That too is possible - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1425 Views
Some random trends/data points - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1441 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 923 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1511 Views
Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1320 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1500 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 826 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 856 Views
so.... - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1503 Views
Nope... - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1466 Views
Yes - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1388 Views
Some things to consider - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1397 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1356 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1375 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1405 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1472 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1408 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1390 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1453 Views
This is a flawed list - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1391 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1506 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1572 Views
Not really - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1480 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1508 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1385 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1476 Views
Some quotes - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1371 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1467 Views
Re: Some things to consider - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1458 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1406 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1440 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1382 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1427 Views
I'm actually perplexed - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1351 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1490 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 859 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1444 Views
Yes and No - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1356 Views
Re: Yes and No - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1507 Views
Indeed - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1444 Views
Ajah Strength Index - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1444 Views
Greens... - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1386 Views
Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1338 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1384 Views
Re: Me too honestly - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1423 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1455 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1385 Views
Liandrin's 13 - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1530 Views
Explain - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1459 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1564 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1499 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1411 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1470 Views
Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1573 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1602 Views
mostly agree - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1465 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1744 Views
Re: Aran'gar - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1660 Views
We do have some additional clues - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1613 Views
additional thought - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1396 Views
Does she know that? - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1589 Views
I'm speculating of course - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1455 Views
Strength by National origin - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1363 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1484 Views
Tamra's known hunters - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1478 Views
Known... - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1375 Views
Re: Known... - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1569 Views

Reply to Message