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Re: Some things to consider Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM


To make a trend, you need a wide sample, with no bias. Our sample is based on Forsaken, who were the best channelers of the AoL, and the heroes who were born to fight them. Rather selective, to make any conclusions.

It's based on every channeler stronger than Moiraine.
He may have been unskilled in combat, but he obviously could use the OP to achieve incredibly complex genetic alterations. There is zero evidence for him being unskilled.

Or skilled. We don't know how he made his genetic alterations. In all likelihood they were made with machines or ter'angreal and his brain is to blame.
Based on? We come across their Talents more, because they are major characters. But we've seen plenty of weaker channelers with great, or even incredible Talents, and strong ones with no particular Talents at all.

The major character reply is a bit of a cop out. I agree we have seen weak channelers with Talents, but not many. Berowin, Sumeko, Androl.

We have also seen that more than half of the women who have been dragged into making cuendillar are Yellow ajah, and that the key is strength in Earth. Thus a whole cluster of strength in a flow and two Talents. Very skewed and not coincidental. Egwene is strong in all the flows and the Power and has a whole host of Talents.


Huh? You've never seen Nynaeve struggle? She doesn't practice, so she is quite unskilled. RJ even said that while Elayne and Egwene would pass the Aes Sedai test with considerable ease, Nynaeve would have difficulty. Talaan easily defeats her. Cadsuane says she is quite abysmal outside of Healing. Sumeko even calls her Healing clumsy, though that is probably only true in comparison to Sumeko herself.

Once Nynaeve does start practicing, she improves. But not before. There's no default skill because she's so strong.


Her problem was her block and her total disinterest in anything that wasn't Healing. As early as TSR she was a direct match for Moghedien in combat. Alivia also only knows how to destroy things with the Power but she picks up things almost instantly. Her ability to see and apply herself with saidar worried Cadsuane, which means that it is not a common skill. And then, of course, Alivia's ability to equal Cyndane's skill with an angreal is proof that strength by its self is a type of skill that can overcome channeling adversity. Which is why Siuan Sanche and Moiraine have used angreal and sa'angreal to Heal in the past.

We've also seen Rand split his flows more than ten ways and weave incredibly complex weaves without training, before Asmodean taught him. Yet he couldn't do much else. There is innate ability there, albeit uncontrolled.


Undoubtedly. But what makes you think this is weighed towards stronger channelers? We have direct evidence contradicting that.

We have trends that confirm that, and exceptions that prevent us from making a rule. I don't want to make a rule. I'm perfectly happy with "tall people find it easier to change lightbulbs but there are some short people who are really good at it too."
Since Cadsuane made the observation?

I'm not familiar with that quote.
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Sortable, searchable file of Channelers darius_sedai - 28/11/2015 10:01:57 PM 3704 Views
Outstanding job Sidious - 29/11/2015 04:15:17 PM 1402 Views
Re: Outstanding job darius_sedai - 29/11/2015 06:53:40 PM 1373 Views
Very impressive. Well done. Cannoli - 29/11/2015 04:41:52 PM 1553 Views
Re: Very impressive. Well done. darius_sedai - 29/11/2015 06:54:02 PM 1436 Views
Quick Question gban007 - 30/11/2015 05:11:17 AM 1576 Views
Nope fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:44:04 AM 1643 Views
They do say it Sidious - 30/11/2015 10:32:48 AM 1725 Views
I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 03:21:00 PM 1422 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength Sidious - 01/12/2015 08:02:01 AM 1547 Views
Well, it also states that there are gradations within each level too darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 04:26:29 PM 1559 Views
Well maybe Sidious - 02/12/2015 06:31:05 AM 1554 Views
Here's how I see it: fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:34:54 AM 1559 Views
I agree darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 04:22:52 PM 1579 Views
Re: I agree DomA - 02/12/2015 05:14:50 PM 1762 Views
It's always been confusing darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:00:01 PM 1704 Views
Re: It's always been confusing DomA - 02/12/2015 07:27:11 PM 1694 Views
I wholeheartedly agree darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 08:07:39 PM 1510 Views
Re: Here's how I see it: DomA - 02/12/2015 04:46:54 PM 1757 Views
Morgase Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:37:47 AM 1604 Views
I agree with you on this darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:22:22 PM 1432 Views
Re: Morgase DomA - 03/12/2015 07:46:59 PM 1722 Views
I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 09:29:52 PM 1543 Views
Re: I didn't realize he was being literal in that comment DomA - 04/12/2015 08:41:51 PM 1450 Views
I don't know about RJ's issues, but the White Tower's waste always seemed like a minor theme there Cannoli - 04/12/2015 09:05:08 PM 1523 Views
Yes the Aes Sedai are all about "the glory of being Aes Sedai" kind of like religious cults darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:47:34 PM 1449 Views
Too bad he also wrote in contingencies darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:45:26 PM 1402 Views
Re: Well maybe darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 03:52:49 PM 1658 Views
Re: Well maybe Sidious - 02/12/2015 04:42:37 PM 1711 Views
Probably darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:11:42 PM 1470 Views
Re: Probably DomA - 02/12/2015 07:38:50 PM 1592 Views
Indeed darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 08:21:07 PM 1484 Views
Re: Indeed Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:08:03 AM 1407 Views
close enough to not debate about it darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:47:55 PM 1430 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it fionwe1987 - 03/12/2015 04:14:38 PM 1424 Views
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 04:43:29 PM 1493 Views
Re: I think you misunderstand what I'm saying fionwe1987 - 03/12/2015 05:41:17 PM 1501 Views
um, no darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 09:24:31 PM 1412 Views
You two seem like Egwene's interchangeable defenders to me; it's weird to see you fighting. Cannoli - 04/12/2015 09:21:23 PM 1766 Views
That's on you... fionwe1987 - 04/12/2015 09:46:51 PM 1433 Views
We've been arguing on the forums for like 10 years darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:36:55 PM 1411 Views
It's Cannoli, Darius fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:53:06 PM 1416 Views
LOL *NM* darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 03:26:40 AM 852 Views
Some points Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:14:30 AM 1442 Views
Re: close enough to not debate about it Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:29:44 AM 1460 Views
Re: I added Rand and Lews Therin to the ++1 Strength gban007 - 03/12/2015 07:22:15 AM 1375 Views
Great job fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:45:27 AM 1426 Views
Re: Great job darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 03:22:09 PM 1432 Views
Made a few adjustments to add some presumed minimum/maximum levels *NM* darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 04:28:13 PM 934 Views
Some questions fionwe1987 - 30/11/2015 05:18:00 PM 1413 Views
Re: Some questions darius_sedai - 30/11/2015 07:26:29 PM 1409 Views
Re: Some questions Sidious - 01/12/2015 08:05:01 AM 1595 Views
That's why I added another column to it darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 04:25:04 PM 1485 Views
Some more fionwe1987 - 01/12/2015 05:24:40 PM 1506 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 07:34:20 PM 1545 Views
Re: Some more fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 12:27:40 AM 1549 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 02:26:53 AM 1472 Views
Re: Some more fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:24:49 AM 1513 Views
Re: Some more darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 05:54:49 PM 1539 Views
Re: Some more Sidious - 03/12/2015 04:26:45 AM 1340 Views
You said this much better than I did darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 03:53:57 PM 1413 Views
I think the men are much too strong Sidious - 02/12/2015 09:01:56 AM 1578 Views
Yes fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 03:06:44 PM 1408 Views
Re: Yes Sidious - 02/12/2015 04:45:20 PM 1522 Views
Re: Yes darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:39:43 PM 1571 Views
Re: Yes Sidious - 03/12/2015 03:56:23 AM 1376 Views
I think when characters quoted information from their world it gets muddled darius_sedai - 03/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1489 Views
Shielding Sidious - 05/12/2015 11:19:40 AM 1325 Views
I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 06:41:35 PM 1348 Views
Re: I feel like there is an RJ quote about this actually Sidious - 07/12/2015 12:39:54 PM 1412 Views
seriously! darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 04:55:43 PM 1418 Views
Who should defer to whom? darius_sedai - 01/12/2015 08:17:22 PM 1567 Views
Interesting... fionwe1987 - 02/12/2015 08:44:32 AM 1567 Views
I think there needs to be a pretty significant (5+ levels) difference darius_sedai - 02/12/2015 06:25:35 PM 1578 Views
Good job Terez - 05/12/2015 08:43:09 PM 1930 Views
Some questions fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 12:28:46 AM 1425 Views
Can't offer much Terez - 06/12/2015 12:33:29 AM 1751 Views
Cool. Hopefully Dom will see this... fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:58:39 PM 1343 Views
Re: Some questions darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 08:06:56 PM 1370 Views
Then there would be some mention of it, yes/ fionwe1987 - 06/12/2015 08:56:10 PM 1372 Views
Not at all ... He clearly had a general sense of how it worked darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 03:28:35 AM 1293 Views
Re: Some questions DomA - 07/12/2015 04:19:43 PM 1645 Views
yet we also know that some things are inherently different for men and women darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 08:15:26 PM 1336 Views
it probably has to do with the fact that the characters in the books are also obsessed with strength darius_sedai - 06/12/2015 07:58:20 PM 1449 Views
Sort of. Terez - 06/12/2015 10:30:36 PM 1924 Views
Makes sense fionwe1987 - 07/12/2015 12:38:54 AM 1353 Views
Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series darius_sedai - 07/12/2015 07:39:59 PM 1561 Views
Re: Clearly his strength rankings came in mid-series Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:33:27 AM 1395 Views
Probably something along those lines darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 03:44:48 PM 1285 Views
Lifespan question (Spoiler) darius_sedai - 08/12/2015 05:42:41 PM 1330 Views
Moiraine... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 02:28:50 AM 1403 Views
That too is possible darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 03:02:12 PM 1353 Views
Some random trends/data points darius_sedai - 08/12/2015 08:39:14 PM 1366 Views
Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. *NM* fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 02:42:51 AM 872 Views
Re: Who is the one Sharan? And I'm surprised so many Seanchan have listed strength levels. darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:18 PM 1441 Views
Not sure she can channel, though fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 03:22:17 PM 1256 Views
Re: Not sure she can channel, though darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 04:54:37 PM 1442 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:36 PM 791 Views
duplicate post ignore *NM* darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 02:31:55 PM 820 Views
so.... Sidious - 09/12/2015 06:10:41 AM 1422 Views
Nope... fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 03:24:07 PM 1408 Views
Yes Sidious - 09/12/2015 03:46:30 PM 1333 Views
Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 09/12/2015 04:18:50 PM 1330 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:43:35 AM 1295 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 06:28:49 AM 1282 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 11:53:51 AM 1327 Views
Sorilea has always been shown as skilled darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:10:37 PM 1401 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 04:46:29 PM 1326 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:50:17 PM 1315 Views
plenty of weaker ones with notably strong Talents actually darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 06:26:03 PM 1383 Views
This is a flawed list Sidious - 11/12/2015 05:14:47 AM 1297 Views
and you are just rationalizing to make your point seem plausible darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 03:10:12 PM 1436 Views
another point about Talents (unrelated to the Strength question) darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 06:06:42 PM 1500 Views
Not really Sidious - 11/12/2015 09:09:41 PM 1413 Views
You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 10:13:13 PM 1438 Views
Re: You are trying to force fit thin evidence into a sweeping statement Sidious - 12/12/2015 06:46:05 AM 1308 Views
Let's face it a body builder ninja is sort of funny to think about darius_sedai - 12/12/2015 02:55:37 PM 1407 Views
Some quotes fionwe1987 - 12/12/2015 01:18:41 AM 1303 Views
Re: Some things to consider fionwe1987 - 12/12/2015 03:18:30 AM 1395 Views
Re: Some things to consider Sidious - 12/12/2015 06:19:15 AM 1379 Views
Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! darius_sedai - 12/12/2015 03:15:26 PM 1309 Views
Re: Hey ... I have no interest in making you look stupid! Sidious - 13/12/2015 11:26:17 AM 1347 Views
Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road darius_sedai - 14/12/2015 04:40:50 PM 1310 Views
Re: Yes, it's a sad thing to realize that this is pretty much the end of the road Sidious - 15/12/2015 06:01:58 AM 1339 Views
I'm actually perplexed fionwe1987 - 15/12/2015 07:19:27 AM 1287 Views
Re: I'm actually perplexed Sidious - 17/12/2015 11:36:59 AM 1422 Views
LOL ... Amen! *NM* darius_sedai - 15/12/2015 03:54:55 PM 823 Views
I don't think Elayne was that Strong in TSR darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:55:19 PM 1372 Views
Yes and No darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 04:35:48 PM 1292 Views
Re: Yes and No DomA - 09/12/2015 10:41:32 PM 1433 Views
Indeed darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 11:01:03 PM 1371 Views
Ajah Strength Index darius_sedai - 09/12/2015 10:45:29 PM 1346 Views
Greens... fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 12:24:11 AM 1327 Views
Me too honestly darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 03:12:21 AM 1267 Views
Re: Me too honestly fionwe1987 - 10/12/2015 04:59:42 AM 1313 Views
Re: Me too honestly darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:18:00 PM 1355 Views
Re: Ajah Strength Index Sidious - 10/12/2015 05:40:39 AM 1330 Views
I'm not so sure you'd have a chioce darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 04:01:35 PM 1312 Views
Liandrin's 13 darius_sedai - 10/12/2015 09:14:50 PM 1458 Views
Explain Sidious - 11/12/2015 05:16:55 AM 1396 Views
Several reasons ... Edited for clarity darius_sedai - 11/12/2015 02:54:58 PM 1496 Views
Bowl of the Winds Circle darius_sedai - 14/12/2015 09:41:33 PM 1351 Views
The Cleansing Circles ... some speculation here darius_sedai - 15/12/2015 05:52:14 PM 1345 Views
If I was Cadsuane I would have done it differently darius_sedai - 15/12/2015 10:01:07 PM 1391 Views
Aran'gar fionwe1987 - 16/12/2015 01:11:17 AM 1497 Views
Re: Aran'gar Sidious - 16/12/2015 06:54:28 AM 1511 Views
mostly agree darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 06:27:06 PM 1374 Views
Re: Aran'gar fionwe1987 - 16/12/2015 06:50:27 PM 1666 Views
Re: Aran'gar Sidious - 17/12/2015 10:07:48 AM 1577 Views
We do have some additional clues darius_sedai - 17/12/2015 06:26:20 PM 1552 Views
additional thought darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 06:49:04 PM 1332 Views
Does she know that? fionwe1987 - 16/12/2015 06:58:24 PM 1513 Views
I'm speculating of course darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 07:37:10 PM 1388 Views
Strength by National origin darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 09:04:11 PM 1296 Views
Rebels v. Loyalists! darius_sedai - 16/12/2015 10:29:28 PM 1412 Views
Tamra's known hunters darius_sedai - 04/01/2016 06:58:17 PM 1412 Views
Known... fionwe1987 - 05/01/2016 01:54:56 AM 1282 Views
Re: Known... darius_sedai - 05/01/2016 02:55:50 AM 1502 Views
If you want to use the file you might want to grab it now before the site shuts down *NM* darius_sedai - 18/09/2016 06:45:48 PM 737 Views
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