To put it simply, the messenger was a very visible pawn of Graendal's. Graendal of all people knows that's it's very hard to completely erase something from the human mind, especially a location like Natrin's Barrow where that mind was subjected to the shock of Compulsion. There's always the chance that people might have some memory of the location, and that if Rand comes searching for her, he will look firstly at high-profile Domani messengers since LTT knows that's how Graendal would operate.
To counter this, she used a much more subtly-positioned servant working in a prison (Kerb). Rand would not have gone looking for him (and indeed, he didn't - Nynaeve did that). Furthermore, it seems like a lucky coincidence that Nynaeve caught Kerb out - had Rand gone there, he would have failed to sense the saidar-compulsion.
Regardless, I do tend to agree that this plot mechanism for finding Graendal was a bit weak and "lucky" for the Light, but I still don't find it to be a "major logical flaw", let alone implausible.
For all we know, the messenger had other orders, perhaps including one to return to Graendal's lair (even if she couldn't vocally reveal its location), and had to be killed for that reason.
So in summation, Graendal is dead and I don't have a hard time believing any of the events that lead up to it. It might not have been the most imaginative writing, but it was decent enough and the payoff at Natrin's Barrow was worth it.
To counter this, she used a much more subtly-positioned servant working in a prison (Kerb). Rand would not have gone looking for him (and indeed, he didn't - Nynaeve did that). Furthermore, it seems like a lucky coincidence that Nynaeve caught Kerb out - had Rand gone there, he would have failed to sense the saidar-compulsion.
Regardless, I do tend to agree that this plot mechanism for finding Graendal was a bit weak and "lucky" for the Light, but I still don't find it to be a "major logical flaw", let alone implausible.
For all we know, the messenger had other orders, perhaps including one to return to Graendal's lair (even if she couldn't vocally reveal its location), and had to be killed for that reason.
So in summation, Graendal is dead and I don't have a hard time believing any of the events that lead up to it. It might not have been the most imaginative writing, but it was decent enough and the payoff at Natrin's Barrow was worth it.
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
3158 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
1899 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
1704 Views
After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
1814 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
3168 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
1751 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
1675 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
1455 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
1518 Views
that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
1419 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
1539 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
1582 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
1491 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
1611 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
1643 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
1393 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1584 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
1596 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
1428 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
1029 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1584 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
1622 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
1690 Views
I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
1520 Views
Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
1567 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
832 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
1687 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
1459 Views
Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
1622 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
1509 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
1517 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
1542 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
1408 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
1458 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
1630 Views
read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
1249 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
1398 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
1429 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
1577 Views
I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
1665 Views
But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
1384 Views
Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
1572 Views
That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
1659 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense.
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1685 Views
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1685 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
1513 Views
Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
1377 Views
Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
1562 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
1552 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
1399 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
1492 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
946 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
906 Views
Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
1568 Views
Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
1391 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
1364 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
1437 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
1675 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
1468 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
1227 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
1537 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
1609 Views
That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
1456 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
1399 Views
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
1399 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
842 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
976 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
1402 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
1526 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
1606 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
1594 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
914 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
1555 Views
Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
1321 Views
Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
1451 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
1412 Views
And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
1222 Views
Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
1529 Views
Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
1495 Views
Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
1460 Views
Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
1588 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
1453 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
1496 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
1370 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
1513 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
1487 Views
Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
1514 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
1572 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
1546 Views
I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
1868 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display.
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
760 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
760 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
1447 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
1464 Views
I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
1566 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
1510 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
1495 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
1482 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
878 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
1549 Views

*NM*