By chance Nynaeve decided to further investigate the case concerning the dead messenger & Lady Chadmar on her own (contrary to Nynaeve, "Rand had determined that his hunt for the Domani king had hit a wall with the death of the messenger" ). Later, just before Nynaeve leaves the dungeon, she spontaneously decides to Delve Lady Chadmar to see, if she is ill and identifies the poison. This leads to Kerb, and Nynaeve manages to unravel the Compulsion on him (which is quite difficult). By chance or ta'veren, Kerb didn't lose his whole mind in the porcess, but does manage to utter at least the location of Graendal's palace, when he is asked by Rand.
While there certainly was some luck on Rand's side, this scene isn't that illogical. On the other hand, it's pretty crazy to think that Graendal could foresee all this, especially relying on chance, to lure Rand to her. If Graendal made a mistake, one could - in hindsight - say, it was apparently ordering the death of Lady Chadmar by this slow-working natural poison, which could be detected by a capable Wisdom AS in time (though as said, the Forsaken often make such mistakes, and it could have worked).
While there certainly was some luck on Rand's side, this scene isn't that illogical. On the other hand, it's pretty crazy to think that Graendal could foresee all this, especially relying on chance, to lure Rand to her. If Graendal made a mistake, one could - in hindsight - say, it was apparently ordering the death of Lady Chadmar by this slow-working natural poison, which could be detected by a capable Wisdom AS in time (though as said, the Forsaken often make such mistakes, and it could have worked).
It seems that some people think that Graendal is second only to the Creator in prowess. It was a complete coincidence that Nynaeve stumbled upon one of Graendal's victims. Not only that but Graendal would have had to assume that Rand could get her location from Kerb, which he was clearly forbidden to do. Rand had to get a female channeler to unravel Graendal's webs and then get a small piece of information before the boy died. If Graendal could plan this then she IS the Creator.
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Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM
2998 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene
- 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM
1760 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap.
- 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM
1573 Views
After reading 12 WoT books...
- 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM
1634 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ...
- 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM
3026 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM
1583 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM
1520 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel
- 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM
1325 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing?
- 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM
1359 Views
that's kind of my whole point
- 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM
1302 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work
- 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM
1410 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended
- 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM
1464 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once?
- 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM
1361 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible?
- 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM
1496 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM
1514 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM
1280 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1455 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM
1475 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive.
- 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM
1297 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM
959 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM
1455 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses.
- 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM
1488 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead.
- 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM
1544 Views
I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM
1399 Views
Re: I believe she's dead
- 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM
1436 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM*
- 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM
761 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM
1556 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene!
- 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
1310 Views
Stop passing judgments...
- 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM
1514 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched
- 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM
1387 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM
1370 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental...
- 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM
1400 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread...
- 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM
1286 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM
1328 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place
- 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM
1487 Views
read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM
1117 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote
- 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM
1267 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM
1322 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together.
- 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM
1444 Views
I don't see any flaws.
- 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM
1542 Views
But...
- 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM
1266 Views
Re: But...
- 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM
1433 Views
That still doesn't make sense.
- 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM
1523 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense.
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1524 Views
- 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM
1524 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy!
- 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM
1357 Views
Nonsense.
- 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM
1240 Views
Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM
1446 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please...
- 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM
1410 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself
- 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM
1276 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot
- 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM
1331 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM
872 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM*
- 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM
833 Views
Ok, in more detail:
- 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM
1442 Views
Thoughts
- 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM
1269 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM
1236 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something.
- 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM
1301 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly...
- 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM
1542 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM
1348 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM
1109 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM
1379 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM
1455 Views
That's not fair
- 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM
1308 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
1256 Views
.
- 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM
1256 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM
771 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM
898 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before.
- 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM
1265 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot.
- 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM
1385 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM
1487 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal.
- 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM
1466 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM*
- 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM
845 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current
- 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM
1426 Views
Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM
1185 Views
Re: Not even comparable.
- 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM
1326 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts?
- 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM
1282 Views
And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM
1082 Views
Re: And, just to double post:
- 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM
1403 Views
Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM
1382 Views
Re: Nice answer.
- 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM
1323 Views
Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM
1462 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM
1329 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM
1362 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM
1216 Views
Re: Hilarious.
- 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM
1382 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts.
- 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM
1327 Views
Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM
1362 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was..
- 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM
1446 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished...
- 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM
1384 Views
I disagree.
- 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM
1743 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display.
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
688 Views
*NM*
- 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM
688 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever?
- 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM
1308 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but...
- 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM
1331 Views
I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM
1416 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw
- 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM
1383 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims.
- 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM
1360 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans
- 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
1346 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM*
- 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM
808 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story.
- 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM
1343 Views

*NM*