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I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
You believe Graendal was making these efforts to prevent Rand from finding her.

I don't think it's what she was doing at all. I don't think she had fears he could trace her agents back to her hiding place. I think she was totally confident in her Compulsion. Even Semirhage wasn't pleased to be asked to remove a Compulsion net. Graendal was not foolish to assume Rand had no one who could do it succesfully. Assuming otherwise would mean being shy/overcautious and by this lack of confidence deprive herself of much of her toolbox.

It didn't matter that Kerb knew her hiding place. He wasn't supposed to be able to reveal it. It's a big strike of sheer luck that the man hated Graendal so deeply that a part of his mind was able to spit this information out before he died, because Rand mentionned he could stop her if he knew where she was.

Graendal didn't fear that Rand found out some of her agents like Kerb - anyone who can delve could figure out she's compelled this or that person.

Graendal was under orders to frustrate Rand and increase his despair.

She let him catch a Councilor. He thinks he can track down the others and have them elect a new King, but she gets a few assassinated. Not all of them - he would have abandonned this solution immediately and think of something else. No, she killed just a few so he expanded the efforts to find them and it's in the end fruitless, more and more frustrating for him, more and more a waste of time and effort. Wherever he turned, Graendal seemed everywhere and more and more he would have gotten paranoid, wondering if there was a point in attempting anything, since anyone could be one of her pawns... Before long, he would have started wondering if he could actually trust Ituralde and his men. Had he delved some of them, including Ituralde, he would no longer have trusted these men...

She let him catch Milisair and get useless clues about the King, then she made Milisair vanish. Before long Rand would have tried to locate her, and it would have lead to a dead end: she's been assassinated (only to convince Rand she could have revealed something, but he lost her before she could). Then there was Kerb, but even if he tracked him down as Milisair's assassin, this would have lead nowhere, or on yet another false trail. Rand would have lost his time.


And the "big glitch" of Graendal's death aside (a course of events she could not foresee for all sort of reasons, including that Rand suddenly changed and did something that days ago would have been unthinkable to him and out of character), her plans worked, and in the typical Graendal way it was all extremely economical as far as the level of active efforts from her was concerned). Rand did get totally frustrated with the Domani situation, gave up and left. A success, if not for the little bug that thanks to Semirhage Rand suddenly started playing the game like the Forsaken themselves, with none of the usual restraints of Lightsiders, and he used a tactic even the Shadow abandonned during the WOP as too dangerous... The last thing Graendal would have expected is LTT to make massive use of balefire, with the Pattern already weakened.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2628 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1318 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1092 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1208 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1206 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 994 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1168 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1125 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1361 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1154 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1109 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 901 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 905 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 859 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1149 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1010 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1070 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 952 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1067 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 882 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1049 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1053 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 984 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1079 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 878 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1040 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 847 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1062 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1016 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 923 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1015 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1023 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 993 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1121 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 978 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1021 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 839 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1149 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 869 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1076 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 963 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 925 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 973 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 874 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 987 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1027 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 962 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 958 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 533 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 991 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 871 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1002 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 735 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 854 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 901 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1073 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1097 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 851 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 980 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 897 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1057 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1095 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 979 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 900 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 828 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 993 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 993 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 895 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 936 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 754 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 807 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 883 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 935 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 867 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 677 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 607 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1013 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 748 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 917 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 853 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 917 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 992 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 834 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 930 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1034 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1073 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 893 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 924 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 906 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 721 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 936 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1005 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 866 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 833 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 820 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 954 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 974 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 632 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 990 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 785 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 906 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 836 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 896 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 875 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 658 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 923 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 955 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 907 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1014 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 944 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 921 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 758 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 959 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 909 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 911 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1004 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 958 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1339 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 879 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 893 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 958 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 917 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1006 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 915 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 927 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 635 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 915 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 616 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 910 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1036 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 776 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 909 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 984 Views

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