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Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood Send a noteboard - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM
There's quite a few moments of argument between Rand and Nynaeve before she tests to see if Ramshalan is still under compulsion.

If Aran'gar was with Graendal, and Graendal therefore knew there was a man channeling a hige amount of Saidin outside, she could well have Traveled to the forest surrounding Rand. When she saw the Balefire destroy her lair, she could have removed the weave.

We have no clue if any resides remained, because Nynaeve doesn't have the ability to read residues (we know this from tPoD).


Why do you want Graendal to be alive so badly? If you read the "damned scene", it's clear, crystal clear, that Graendal is dead. I don't mean to be rude, here, but it just seems like... well, it seems some kind of desperate attempt to get a second chance for a character you wanted to be more impressive. Not only is the evidence in the book clear, but outside the book, there's really no narrative time for a reveal of the character to be alive, then be fought and killed again.

I just would like to see someone who believes she's alive give some evidence as to why they think so. I do mean evidence that isn't trying to find holes in the plot to explain how she could possibly, maybe, if numerous unmentioned-in-the-book pre-requisites are met, she could concievably be alive. Is there any evidence that anyone has that she's actually alive?

I apologize, because this sounds harsh, I know, it's just bewildering to me.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2997 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1760 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1572 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1633 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1621 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1483 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1620 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1553 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1777 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1582 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1519 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1324 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1358 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1302 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1598 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1464 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1499 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1409 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1463 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1361 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1496 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1485 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1411 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1513 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1279 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1474 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1297 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1454 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1486 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1356 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1468 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1487 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1452 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1543 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1398 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1435 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1305 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1555 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1310 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1514 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1386 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1369 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1399 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1285 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1398 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1472 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1377 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1363 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 722 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1438 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1327 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1486 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 1116 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1266 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1321 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1443 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1540 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1265 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1432 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1310 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1522 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1523 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1356 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1320 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1240 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1445 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1409 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1274 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1330 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1188 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1232 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1318 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1361 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1291 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 870 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 832 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1441 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1187 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1351 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1268 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1350 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1436 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1236 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1301 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1540 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1503 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1349 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1348 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1309 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 1108 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1378 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1454 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1308 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1255 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1265 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1385 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1485 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 844 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1425 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1184 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1325 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1281 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1329 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1324 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 1082 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1402 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1381 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1322 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1461 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1328 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1361 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1216 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1381 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1325 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1361 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1445 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1383 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1742 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1307 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1330 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1371 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1324 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1416 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1382 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1374 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 835 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1345 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 808 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1309 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1468 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1246 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1342 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1421 Views

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