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Re: Not really Sidious Send a noteboard - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM

Huh? Where have you addressed why Millisair was being poisoned? Give me one reason that makes sense.


I don't understand why this is a problem. Graendal wanted the Merchant Council enslaved or killed. It's logical that her minion, being not a grown man who could not strangle or stab her, used poison to murder her. I'm sure Graendal had plenty of minions in Arad Doman who were programmed or killed to catch certain people of importance.

I think she may be alive. And you can certainly discuss that, but accusing me of wanting her to be alive and letting that bias my viewing of the text is hardly a discussion.


It was a valid point. You were ready to throw everything but the kitchen sink in my direction to prove that Graendal escaped, and many of the theories were downright crazy.

For the record, I don't want her alive. I would much rather that she be dead, especially with only two books to go. That doesn't mean I think the whole sequence was well written.


I'm confused by your confusion. I think the build-up is rather simple and logical. Maybe you're looking for complexities that aren't there, and leave you disappointed.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 3158 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1899 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1704 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... Etzel - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1814 Views
You also ignored... randfandom - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1765 Views
and of course, the obvious theme Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1597 Views
Bah! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1773 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS Etzel - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1679 Views
I think playing too many games just messes up with the integrety and solidness of the books ... amirebram - 26/01/2010 09:46:16 PM 3167 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1906 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1751 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Underwood - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1675 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1455 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? beetnemesis - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1518 Views
that's kind of my whole point darius_sedai - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1418 Views
Uh, not actually at all really Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1756 Views
*shudders* Yondaime - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1591 Views
*shrugs* darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1625 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1538 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1581 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? Rurouni_Kenshin - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1490 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1610 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1646 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? Rurouni_Kenshin - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1521 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1643 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1393 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1595 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1427 Views
Moiraine probably learned it while researching with Adealas and Vandene. *NM* Gher - 26/01/2010 04:57:09 PM 1029 Views
Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1584 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1615 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1476 Views
Re: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1597 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1622 Views
Me, Too. The Name With No Man - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1579 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. Sidious - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1690 Views
I believe she's dead Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1519 Views
Re: I believe she's dead Sidious - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1567 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone Sareitha Sedai - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1435 Views
Besides, if it wasn't Graendal, it implies that she knew of Rand's plan, which is not feasible *NM* Shannow - 26/01/2010 02:01:41 PM 832 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1687 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! Underwood - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1459 Views
Stop passing judgments... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1622 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched Sidious - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1508 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1516 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1541 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1407 Views
Not really Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1543 Views
Re: Not really fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1599 Views
Re: Not really Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1508 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1483 Views
*NM* RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 799 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them beetnemesis - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1565 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1457 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place Sidious - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1630 Views
read the whole quote darius_sedai - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 1249 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1398 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1429 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1577 Views
I don't see any flaws. Skeeve the Great - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1665 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1384 Views
Re: But... Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1572 Views
That is what I thought ... Yondaime - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1469 Views
That still doesn't make sense. fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1659 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. Yondaime - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1684 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1512 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! Yondaime - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1474 Views
Nonsense. Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1376 Views
Dude, read what I said please... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1561 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1552 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself darius_sedai - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1399 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot Yondaime - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1492 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1343 Views
We don't know that, exactly Yondaime - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1402 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1473 Views
Seriously? Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1507 Views
Maybe... Etzel - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1424 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 946 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 905 Views
Ok, in more detail: Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1567 Views
I'm tired of making this point... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1325 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... Syraelle - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1511 Views
Thoughts Heiko - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1391 Views
But that means she's dead Skeeve the Great - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1492 Views
Re: But that means she's dead Heiko - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1584 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. Lord Haart - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1363 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. Syraelle - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1437 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1675 Views
Indeed... Etzel - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1663 Views
Re: Indeed... Sidious - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1489 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1467 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Underwood - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1444 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 1226 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1537 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1608 Views
That's not fair Yondaime - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1456 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1398 Views
Does anybody have a link to it? (nothing on Google). I'm intrigued. *NM* Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 08:27:13 AM 841 Views
It was on Wotmania. Someone copied all the theories, but I don't recall whom. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 08:31:00 AM 976 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1402 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1525 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1606 Views
Re: So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:05:21 AM 1594 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 914 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1555 Views
Not even comparable. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1321 Views
Re: Not even comparable. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1451 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1412 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1473 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1446 Views
And, just to double post: Fanatic-Templar - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 1222 Views
Re: And, just to double post: RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1528 Views
Nice answer. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1495 Views
Re: Nice answer. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1460 Views
Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1588 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1452 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1496 Views
Re: Hilarious. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1370 Views
Re: Hilarious. Fanatic-Templar - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1512 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1487 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. Etzel - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1514 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1572 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... Etzel - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1546 Views
I disagree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1868 Views
I will stop our discussion here; the posts are already pushed too far to the right of my display. *NM* Etzel - 29/01/2010 06:14:29 PM 760 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? Fanatic-Templar - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1447 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1464 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... fionwe1987 - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1521 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... Skeeve the Great - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1478 Views
I don't see a flaw rAndy aL - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1565 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw Underwood - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1510 Views
Yup, I'm tired of seeing arguments that ignore the need to back up their own claims. Lord Haart - 27/01/2010 05:47:16 PM 1495 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. TheUltimateReality - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1507 Views
Spot on. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 905 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1482 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 878 Views
Compulsion is limited Sidious - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1472 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited Lord Haart - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1622 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited DomA - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1374 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. taura-tierno - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1549 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. Libby - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1557 Views
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