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I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans DomA Send a noteboard - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM
You believe Graendal was making these efforts to prevent Rand from finding her.

I don't think it's what she was doing at all. I don't think she had fears he could trace her agents back to her hiding place. I think she was totally confident in her Compulsion. Even Semirhage wasn't pleased to be asked to remove a Compulsion net. Graendal was not foolish to assume Rand had no one who could do it succesfully. Assuming otherwise would mean being shy/overcautious and by this lack of confidence deprive herself of much of her toolbox.

It didn't matter that Kerb knew her hiding place. He wasn't supposed to be able to reveal it. It's a big strike of sheer luck that the man hated Graendal so deeply that a part of his mind was able to spit this information out before he died, because Rand mentionned he could stop her if he knew where she was.

Graendal didn't fear that Rand found out some of her agents like Kerb - anyone who can delve could figure out she's compelled this or that person.

Graendal was under orders to frustrate Rand and increase his despair.

She let him catch a Councilor. He thinks he can track down the others and have them elect a new King, but she gets a few assassinated. Not all of them - he would have abandonned this solution immediately and think of something else. No, she killed just a few so he expanded the efforts to find them and it's in the end fruitless, more and more frustrating for him, more and more a waste of time and effort. Wherever he turned, Graendal seemed everywhere and more and more he would have gotten paranoid, wondering if there was a point in attempting anything, since anyone could be one of her pawns... Before long, he would have started wondering if he could actually trust Ituralde and his men. Had he delved some of them, including Ituralde, he would no longer have trusted these men...

She let him catch Milisair and get useless clues about the King, then she made Milisair vanish. Before long Rand would have tried to locate her, and it would have lead to a dead end: she's been assassinated (only to convince Rand she could have revealed something, but he lost her before she could). Then there was Kerb, but even if he tracked him down as Milisair's assassin, this would have lead nowhere, or on yet another false trail. Rand would have lost his time.


And the "big glitch" of Graendal's death aside (a course of events she could not foresee for all sort of reasons, including that Rand suddenly changed and did something that days ago would have been unthinkable to him and out of character), her plans worked, and in the typical Graendal way it was all extremely economical as far as the level of active efforts from her was concerned). Rand did get totally frustrated with the Domani situation, gave up and left. A success, if not for the little bug that thanks to Semirhage Rand suddenly started playing the game like the Forsaken themselves, with none of the usual restraints of Lightsiders, and he used a tactic even the Shadow abandonned during the WOP as too dangerous... The last thing Graendal would have expected is LTT to make massive use of balefire, with the Pattern already weakened.
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Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 25/01/2010 05:18:23 PM 2854 Views
I think Graendal's death was a great scene - 25/01/2010 05:26:51 PM 1590 Views
The scene itself was great. The rest is crap. - 25/01/2010 05:37:44 PM 1397 Views
After reading 12 WoT books... - 25/01/2010 05:46:31 PM 1487 Views
You also ignored... - 25/01/2010 08:15:34 PM 1485 Views
and of course, the obvious theme - 25/01/2010 09:02:56 PM 1311 Views
Bah! - 25/01/2010 11:49:33 PM 1458 Views
It's possible that this was mainly written by BS - 26/01/2010 12:03:03 PM 1410 Views
I agree that the set up for her death was rather lame - 25/01/2010 06:14:07 PM 1656 Views
I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:18:30 PM 1439 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 06:44:34 PM 1383 Views
well one of her major character parallels is Josef Mengel - 25/01/2010 06:54:43 PM 1183 Views
Can you think of any way that would explain the Compulsion vanishing? - 25/01/2010 07:52:40 PM 1209 Views
that's kind of my whole point - 25/01/2010 08:43:19 PM 1143 Views
Uh, not actually at all really - 25/01/2010 09:07:52 PM 1435 Views
*shudders* - 26/01/2010 02:27:35 AM 1316 Views
*shrugs* - 26/01/2010 08:47:21 AM 1345 Views
None of those "easy explanations" could work - 26/01/2010 07:14:16 AM 1250 Views
my entire problem with the scene is that it just felt too open ended - 26/01/2010 08:58:37 AM 1321 Views
Can't she knot it to disapate after being examined once? - 26/01/2010 03:43:55 AM 1178 Views
Do we have evidence that this is possible? - 26/01/2010 03:44:48 AM 1345 Views
why would Graendal do that anyway? - 26/01/2010 04:26:38 AM 1355 Views
Re: why would Graendal do that anyway? - 03/02/2010 02:52:32 AM 1274 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 26/01/2010 02:03:51 AM 1373 Views
I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 07:38:40 AM 1146 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 08:49:00 AM 1341 Views
Re: I'm glad you think Be'lal is alive. - 26/01/2010 09:19:35 AM 1126 Views
- 26/01/2010 11:42:04 AM 1326 Views
Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 04:35:19 PM 1322 Views
Re: Didn't Balthamel and Aginor leave corpses? - 26/01/2010 07:06:01 PM 1198 Views
Re: - 26/01/2010 04:44:06 PM 1314 Views
He was balefired by a direct stream in front of at least two credible witnesses. - 26/01/2010 04:10:13 PM 1340 Views
Me, Too. - 28/01/2010 08:00:09 PM 1311 Views
Re: I agree and have my own additional notes as to why I don't think she is dead. - 25/01/2010 08:56:16 PM 1401 Views
I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:06:37 PM 1256 Views
Re: I believe she's dead - 25/01/2010 09:09:58 PM 1293 Views
I don't think she would have taught anyone - 25/01/2010 09:18:03 PM 1156 Views
The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 25/01/2010 11:54:02 PM 1420 Views
Re: The compulsion did not disappear immediately. Read the damned scene! - 26/01/2010 01:22:57 AM 1167 Views
Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 02:05:21 AM 1362 Views
But your theories are becoming increasingly farfetched - 26/01/2010 04:21:21 AM 1238 Views
I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:16:13 PM 1219 Views
Re: I repeat that I find her "death" monumental... - 26/01/2010 07:23:29 PM 1254 Views
Dude, then you derailed the thread... - 26/01/2010 07:31:55 PM 1141 Views
Not really - 26/01/2010 07:35:06 PM 1249 Views
Re: Not really - 26/01/2010 07:45:20 PM 1322 Views
Re: Not really - 28/01/2010 04:27:17 PM 1244 Views
Re: Stop passing judgments... - 26/01/2010 04:40:37 PM 1203 Views
*NM* - 26/01/2010 05:00:10 PM 650 Views
Everyone can see residues- only a select few can "read" them - 26/01/2010 07:42:19 AM 1297 Views
no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 08:51:31 AM 1185 Views
Re: no she said she wouldn't risk strength and skill in the same place - 26/01/2010 11:37:26 AM 1338 Views
read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 04:35:17 PM 984 Views
LOL! You read the whole quote - 26/01/2010 07:00:41 PM 1118 Views
the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 27/01/2010 12:40:09 AM 1183 Views
Re: the risk she won't take is strength and skill residing together. - 28/01/2010 04:28:21 PM 1313 Views
I don't see any flaws. - 25/01/2010 09:14:44 PM 1390 Views
But... - 25/01/2010 11:44:49 PM 1125 Views
Re: But... - 26/01/2010 01:14:51 AM 1291 Views
That is what I thought ... - 26/01/2010 01:24:18 AM 1171 Views
That still doesn't make sense. - 26/01/2010 02:23:12 AM 1368 Views
But, having a clean up guy does make sense. - 26/01/2010 03:02:13 AM 1374 Views
But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 03:35:44 AM 1222 Views
Re: But the clean up guy would require another clean up guy! - 26/01/2010 04:12:41 AM 1177 Views
Nonsense. - 26/01/2010 07:50:04 AM 1101 Views
Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 07:21:52 PM 1293 Views
Re: Dude, read what I said please... - 26/01/2010 09:28:25 PM 1261 Views
Kerb had no initiative... he was under too heavy a Compulsion to think for himself - 27/01/2010 12:45:47 AM 1146 Views
I think he had some, albeit probably not a whole lot - 27/01/2010 01:03:44 AM 1207 Views
Nynaeve and Elayne were under a weaker compulsion... - 27/01/2010 03:10:52 AM 1044 Views
We don't know that, exactly - 27/01/2010 03:50:44 AM 1094 Views
If you cannot provide an answer... - 27/01/2010 03:10:40 AM 1186 Views
Seriously? - 27/01/2010 03:55:57 AM 1222 Views
Maybe... - 27/01/2010 11:08:10 AM 1153 Views
Messenger was running around being obvious. Noone would suspect Kerb though. Case Closed. *NM* - 26/01/2010 11:08:16 AM 808 Views
Thank the creator you're not in the police then. *NM* - 26/01/2010 07:22:29 PM 756 Views
Ok, in more detail: - 26/01/2010 08:16:30 PM 1284 Views
I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:39:22 PM 1043 Views
Re: I'm tired of making this point... - 26/01/2010 08:44:51 PM 1202 Views
Thoughts - 26/01/2010 01:05:45 AM 1116 Views
But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 01:20:19 AM 1166 Views
Re: But that means she's dead - 26/01/2010 05:31:25 AM 1267 Views
Nope. Ramshalan was just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 11:10:25 AM 1090 Views
Re: Nope. Ramshalan was NOT just "collecting taxes" or something. - 26/01/2010 05:41:17 PM 1160 Views
By, the way, if I understand this correctly... - 26/01/2010 04:49:45 PM 1363 Views
Indeed... - 26/01/2010 05:13:53 PM 1356 Views
Re: Indeed... - 26/01/2010 07:04:40 PM 1189 Views
I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:29:42 PM 1190 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 07:58:41 PM 1172 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 26/01/2010 09:42:52 PM 976 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:46 AM 1208 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 04:05:23 AM 1299 Views
That's not fair - 27/01/2010 04:09:38 AM 1148 Views
I agree about the 'awesome' part . - 27/01/2010 05:41:00 AM 1109 Views
I just think it's funny that what you call omniscience has been done by the Forsaken before. - 27/01/2010 02:02:44 PM 1117 Views
But Graendal was the victim of a greater plot. - 27/01/2010 05:30:28 PM 1232 Views
So your response is that Ishamael/Moridin is omniscient, not Graendal. - 27/01/2010 05:57:20 PM 1337 Views
Give me one example. Just one. *NM* - 27/01/2010 06:52:44 PM 773 Views
Ishamael plans millennia ahead by sowing the seeds for the Black Ajah, the Seanchan and the current - 28/01/2010 01:57:39 PM 1288 Views
Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 06:31:06 PM 1050 Views
Re: Not even comparable. - 28/01/2010 07:50:38 PM 1168 Views
Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 28/01/2010 10:45:01 PM 1130 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 03:49:43 PM 1163 Views
Re: Could you please take the effort to read my posts? - 29/01/2010 06:40:43 PM 1174 Views
And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 07:12:17 PM 938 Views
Re: And, just to double post: - 27/01/2010 08:25:45 PM 1254 Views
Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 12:10:27 AM 1260 Views
Re: Nice answer. - 28/01/2010 01:55:16 PM 1184 Views
Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 06:36:22 PM 1301 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:15:20 PM 1197 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:41:29 PM 1214 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 07:53:34 PM 1058 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 28/01/2010 10:55:57 PM 1241 Views
That's because you didn't look at other posts. - 29/01/2010 03:37:08 PM 1178 Views
Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 03:57:41 PM 1230 Views
Re: Moridin's main directive was.. - 29/01/2010 04:50:16 PM 1285 Views
Preventing order wasn't accomplished... - 29/01/2010 05:12:22 PM 1239 Views
I disagree. - 29/01/2010 05:28:59 PM 1598 Views
You expect me to search every post you've made on this forum, ever? - 29/01/2010 06:50:49 PM 1166 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 01:00:42 AM 1174 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 03:26:56 AM 1215 Views
Re: I'm not arguing she's alive, but... - 27/01/2010 05:35:39 AM 1194 Views
I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 06:24:44 AM 1269 Views
Re: I don't see a flaw - 27/01/2010 04:18:27 PM 1223 Views
Let's give you one logic path for Millisair being poisoned. - 27/01/2010 05:47:04 PM 1223 Views
Spot on. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:09:26 AM 767 Views
I don't think there's a flaw, I think you misinterpret Graendal's plans - 27/01/2010 06:57:44 PM 1216 Views
Good point on Ituralde - he may still be Compulsed in ways we're yet to discover. *NM* - 28/01/2010 04:11:15 AM 742 Views
Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 04:30:24 PM 1171 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 06:35:05 PM 1318 Views
Re: Compulsion is limited - 28/01/2010 08:26:37 PM 1095 Views
Re: Graendal's death would imply a major logical flaw in the story. - 27/01/2010 09:11:32 PM 1184 Views
There's really no further purpose for her character. - 09/02/2010 10:52:58 PM 1265 Views

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