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Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 07/02/2010 08:21:19 AM

The trouble is that Egwene does not really practise hardcore all that much more than Nynaeve does, less even I would say since she is so busy with politics. She is an expert at dreaming to be sure, but not at channeling. I cannot recall any scenes where Egwene is shown to be practising hard at channeling, nor a scene where she is shown to do something truly unique and spectacular.

Well, Egwene and Nynaeve are both shown to be interacting with Aes Sedai who refuse to accept their status.
Egwene wows them with her skill, and they say they can teach her nothing more. Nynaeve, while showing the ability to copy anything they can throw at her, also shows that she doesn't know much!

Nynaeve lets two Aes Sedai, weak ones at that, surprise her and shield her, Egwene, when faced with five, thinks of finishing them off!

Not only has Egwene shown more skill, she is much more confident of her ability as a channeler. You think of Egwene as a politician, but her greatest trait is her curiosity and her impatience to learn, which even the Wise One's comment upon. And she's shown the rewards that can have. She channels with an easy Nynaeve has never displayed.
I am not saying that she is a weak or pathetic channeler, but neither is she elite. What she is, is average. She is a good dreamer, and a relatively clever politician. But nowhere do I get the impression that she is a master-channeler. And infact we see this very fact during the Seanchan attack when even with a sa'angreal, she uses basic fireballs and air-weaves. Compare that to say Rand during the Stone attack with another sa'angreal (callandor) and the construct he created to kill trollocs and you will actually see a master at work (though that was obviously LTT rather than Rand).

So she's worse than Lews Therin, the prime example of a well trained AoL channeler. Exactly what does that prove about a woman with less than two years experience with the Power?
And she uses Fireballs and Air weaves. Do you have evidence that Nynaeve used anything different against the Trollocs in KoD? Rand sees nothing but those from the Aes Sedai!

And we have no clue what else Egwene used. That battle was woefully under described.


The section says: "dividing her flows fourteen ways".

A weave is a construct of OP that can be made using 1 or more flows. In this instance, Egwene actually creates 7 weaves, with each weave composed of 2 flows (Fire and Air). These are the color effects (for each ajah).

There's a contradiction by your own evidence.
As you said, Egwene made seven balls and seven rings. That's fourteen weaves. But, as you pointed out, each was made of Air and Fire. That means 28 flows according to you.

Yet, the text describes it as "dividing her flows fourteen ways".

So who is right, you or the text?

And weaves are not made of flows. They're made of threads. The flow that is "divided" is the flow of the One Power. When you make fourteen weaves, you divide the Power flowing into you into fourteen tasks. Each individual Power (of the five Powers, not the OP itself) that is used in a weave doesn't constitute a separate flow of the OP.
What Rand/LTT does is create 12 weaves. But each of his weaves is composed of 3 different flows. So 36 flows to produce 12 weaves. Rather than Egwenes 14 flows. What Rand does is FAR beyond what Egwene does here.

Even by that "logic", Egwene is making 28 flows under Forkroot, as opposed to Rand's 36 while fully strong. More importantly, her flows are being juggled, a complicated process, apparently.

Not to mention that Egwene is weaker than Rand generally, and does not in any way intimate that 14 is her upper limit, whereas Rand has stated before that 12 is his maximum.

Your repeated attempts to show Egwene as unskilled by comparing her with Rand only reinforces my point, by the way. Save Rand and the Forsaken who have AoL training and knowledge, Egwene is shown to be the most skilled channeler.
It is true that Egwene is under forkroot, but from the way it is written, I got the impression that the only difference forkroot makes here is that the glowing-balls she creates are weak and transparent. And infact, during the Seanchan attack, we dont see her do even 14 actual attack weaves at once, even with the help of a link and a sa'angreal. That suggests that rather than being good at multitasking, the stress of battle distracts her and prevents her from doing what she did in the safety of the classroom.

When do we see the need for her to use fourteen weaves when the Seanchan attack? Most of it was offscreen!

The one time we see her fighting them, she's diverting multiple fireballs and arrows being shot at her while also decimating multiple to'raken and raken.

When comparing what Rand/LTT did during the trolloc attack in KoD to what Egwene did (with a link and a sa'angreal!) during the Seanchan attack, Egwene comes off as utterly pathetic.

So, Egwene is worse off then Rand? Never claimed to the contrary. Doesn't mean she won't make mincemeat of Nynaeve in her current state.
Nynaeve would kick her ass easily.

Because Rand can? That is totally illogical. And unsupported by evidence.
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Who would win in a fight? (yes, you read that right! ) - 04/02/2010 10:38:01 PM 2946 Views
Gawyn. *chokes back the vomit that rushes up his throat* - 04/02/2010 10:53:37 PM 1683 Views
There there - 04/02/2010 11:15:00 PM 1624 Views
Huh? He was even WORSE in TGS. - 05/02/2010 05:14:16 AM 1481 Views
I dunno. He actaully DID stuff this time - 05/02/2010 05:24:48 AM 1593 Views
I agree he was much better than before - 05/02/2010 04:39:33 PM 1431 Views
It pains me to say it, but Gawyn would win. - 04/02/2010 11:15:19 PM 1652 Views
Re: It pains me to say it, but Gawyn would win. - 05/02/2010 01:13:52 AM 1549 Views
Gawyn is incredibly irritating - 05/02/2010 01:55:40 AM 1542 Views
No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. - 05/02/2010 10:21:45 PM 1493 Views
Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. - 05/02/2010 10:44:47 PM 1491 Views
Re: No matter how many times people say it, this is still not true. - 05/02/2010 11:53:18 PM 1587 Views
Perhaps the key is that Gawyn is an even more simplistic thinker than Galad. - 06/02/2010 06:20:06 AM 1482 Views
Again, what? When? - 06/02/2010 08:08:47 AM 1465 Views
Well, the fact that he's had access to one of the best educations in Randland - 06/02/2010 09:22:28 AM 1424 Views
Completely different subjects, and pretty insignificant, really. *NM* - 06/02/2010 06:44:35 PM 983 Views
the person to beat Gawyn is Mat - 06/02/2010 06:36:03 AM 1692 Views
Perrin would beat Lan?! *NM* - 06/02/2010 05:52:47 PM 1389 Views
Sure, Gawyn is better - 05/02/2010 02:26:45 AM 1479 Views
Re: Who would win in a fight? (yes, you read that right! ) - 05/02/2010 04:27:16 AM 1635 Views
- 05/02/2010 04:47:17 AM 1334 Views
Add Nynaeve and Egwene to the fight, that's something worth seeing then. - 05/02/2010 05:20:53 AM 1593 Views
Egwene would hand Nynaeve her ass - 05/02/2010 04:55:51 PM 1552 Views
I agree. - 05/02/2010 05:10:34 PM 1510 Views
Re: I agree. - 05/02/2010 05:25:52 PM 1751 Views
You're forgeting Nynaeve's fight vs Trollocs in KoD. - 05/02/2010 07:41:28 PM 1603 Views
Re: You're forgeting Nynaeve's fight vs Trollocs in KoD. - 05/02/2010 09:42:32 PM 1569 Views
I just mentioned it since you said Egwene had more combat experience. - 06/02/2010 06:21:38 AM 1490 Views
I think you are missunderstanding me - 07/02/2010 02:04:13 AM 1547 Views
Re: Egwene would hand Nynaeve her ass - 05/02/2010 07:49:27 PM 2109 Views
Totally agree. *NM* - 05/02/2010 07:52:48 PM 1483 Views
yet RJ has told us that Nynaeve would barely pass the AS test - 05/02/2010 09:41:09 PM 1496 Views
Re: yet RJ has told us that Nynaeve would barely pass the AS test - 05/02/2010 10:00:11 PM 1412 Views
Nynaeve might have trouble... - 05/02/2010 10:24:56 PM 1521 Views
That's not what RJ said. He said Nynaeve would be a little hard pressed - 05/02/2010 10:18:42 PM 1302 Views
she might be a little hard pressed to pass a test she should pass without thought! - 06/02/2010 05:56:38 PM 1210 Views
Moiraine was hard pressed to pass, and she practiced for ages and is the #1 Battle AS. - 06/02/2010 08:27:26 PM 1422 Views
she passed pretty easily IMO - 06/02/2010 09:12:13 PM 1533 Views
The test for the Shawl has little to nothing to do with channeling, you know this right? *NM* - 05/02/2010 10:23:16 PM 897 Views
Are you being serious? *NM* - 06/02/2010 08:57:33 AM 928 Views
of course it does - 06/02/2010 05:48:41 PM 1495 Views
That's not how it happens in New Spring. - 06/02/2010 07:00:52 PM 1361 Views
that's because Moiraine trained and is relatively skilled (for AS) - 06/02/2010 07:34:05 PM 1514 Views
That's nonsensical. - 06/02/2010 09:02:13 PM 1511 Views
It's what RJ said ... "too much specialization" - 06/02/2010 09:14:38 PM 1388 Views
Well, if RJ said it, I guess it must be true. - 06/02/2010 11:17:19 PM 1478 Views
*shrugs* - 07/02/2010 12:59:00 AM 1385 Views
Towers of Midnight spoilers: - 09/11/2010 05:29:05 AM 1436 Views
Re: That's not how it happens in New Spring. - 06/02/2010 08:28:52 PM 1394 Views
Right... - 06/02/2010 08:58:04 PM 1318 Views
About splitting weaves 14 ways - 05/02/2010 10:55:28 PM 1491 Views
Re: About splitting weaves 14 ways - 05/02/2010 11:08:50 PM 1352 Views
Can you provide that quote? - 06/02/2010 07:34:49 PM 1435 Views
Re: Can you provide that quote? - 06/02/2010 08:19:08 PM 1488 Views
there is nothing to say that multiple weaves are involved. - 06/02/2010 09:16:29 PM 1377 Views
That's the nature on the weaving. - 06/02/2010 09:24:39 PM 1443 Views
Not really - 06/02/2010 10:46:52 PM 1473 Views
Yes, really - 06/02/2010 10:55:22 PM 1462 Views
Re: Yes, really - 06/02/2010 11:29:17 PM 1430 Views
Re: Yes, really - 06/02/2010 11:48:14 PM 1361 Views
Re: Yes, really - 07/02/2010 12:18:12 AM 1442 Views
Oh! Forgot another analogy - 07/02/2010 01:13:27 AM 1378 Views
Re: Yes, really - 07/02/2010 01:46:14 AM 1399 Views
Re: Yes, really - 07/02/2010 01:59:44 AM 1327 Views
Re: Yes, really - 07/02/2010 06:36:48 PM 1406 Views
IMO fighting with the Power has little to do with skill - 06/02/2010 09:01:23 AM 1422 Views
Re: IMO fighting with the Power has little to do with skill - 06/02/2010 09:29:06 AM 1540 Views
I agree ... it's much like Rand's approach to Graendal - 06/02/2010 05:51:17 PM 1427 Views
so you've learned nothing from Cyndane v. Alivia. - 06/02/2010 05:45:19 PM 1371 Views
Cyndane v. Alivia are probably of similar strength. - 06/02/2010 08:33:08 PM 1505 Views
Re: Cyndane v. Alivia are probably of similar strength. - 06/02/2010 09:17:40 PM 1469 Views
It's a lone example contested by many other examples - 07/02/2010 09:53:51 AM 1433 Views
the only dueling where a channeler tries to overpower is Nynaeve v. Moghedien - 07/02/2010 01:57:43 PM 1499 Views
Re: the only dueling where a channeler tries to overpower is Nynaeve v. Moghedien - 07/02/2010 04:25:57 PM 1423 Views
from RJs lips to your ears ... - 07/02/2010 06:55:27 PM 1458 Views
Re: from RJs lips to your ears ... - 07/02/2010 08:04:57 PM 1337 Views
Re: from RJs lips to your ears ... - 07/02/2010 08:20:31 PM 1308 Views
... but I can't let this one go... - 07/02/2010 11:09:04 PM 1569 Views
Thank you Robert, Sidious, Jordan - 07/02/2010 11:16:30 PM 1564 Views
Re: Thank you Robert, Sidious, Jordan - 08/02/2010 09:43:15 AM 1404 Views
Hmm... - 07/02/2010 11:05:00 PM 1395 Views
I disagree - 06/02/2010 05:30:40 AM 1367 Views
Egwene never even got into that fight and we are talking about Lanfear - 06/02/2010 05:46:27 PM 1413 Views
Re: Egwene never even got into that fight and we are talking about Lanfear - 06/02/2010 08:23:20 PM 1410 Views
she got hit with a pain weave before she did a damn thing - 06/02/2010 09:21:11 PM 1397 Views
lol - 07/02/2010 01:55:18 AM 1405 Views
Go look below at some of the quotes I've provided - 07/02/2010 01:59:51 AM 1482 Views
If the Power was used, I would agree - 06/02/2010 05:59:14 PM 1412 Views
On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... - 06/02/2010 10:43:43 PM 1349 Views
Exactly my point - 06/02/2010 10:49:49 PM 1375 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... - 06/02/2010 11:12:27 PM 2748 Views
plenty of evidence that Nynaeve is unskilled outside of Healing - 07/02/2010 01:21:20 AM 1500 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... - 07/02/2010 08:02:40 AM 1425 Views
There was one other very skilled Healer in the series... - 07/02/2010 06:44:41 PM 1379 Views
I'm sure she could if she bothered to train - 07/02/2010 06:57:17 PM 1259 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... - 06/02/2010 11:15:59 PM 1422 Views
Nope - 07/02/2010 01:26:19 AM 1488 Views
Re: On the whole Egwene vs. Nynaeve thing... - 07/02/2010 08:21:19 AM 1622 Views
Egwene and Nynaeve had already confront each other - 07/02/2010 08:45:23 AM 1553 Views
but whoever wins - 05/02/2010 04:54:52 AM 1476 Views
*nods* That's cuz ... - 05/02/2010 05:26:57 AM 1539 Views
I actually think Lan would win - 05/02/2010 04:57:24 PM 1468 Views
Agreed - 05/02/2010 08:22:26 PM 1418 Views
I think Lan, hands down. - 05/02/2010 03:30:20 PM 1292 Views
THANK you. - 05/02/2010 11:41:43 PM 9964 Views
Re: THANK you. - 06/02/2010 06:26:04 AM 1395 Views
Gawyn and Galad have become tough - 06/02/2010 09:04:25 AM 1592 Views
Re: Gawyn and Galad have become tough - 06/02/2010 09:31:51 AM 1285 Views
Gawyn is destined to protect the Great Mother ( Egwene ) - 05/02/2010 04:11:51 PM 1488 Views
Hopper!!!!! *NM* - 06/02/2010 12:21:25 AM 885 Views
Hasn't Hopper already lost in a fight? *NM* - 06/02/2010 01:48:19 AM 841 Views
According to the Theoryland database RJ apparently said once... - 06/02/2010 08:55:50 AM 1487 Views
That can't be right, can it? - 06/02/2010 05:51:04 PM 1468 Views
Even in NS only Ryne is known to be better than Lan - 07/02/2010 01:57:29 AM 1522 Views
Huh .... - 06/02/2010 06:23:10 PM 1455 Views
I don't recall Rand loosing to Riatin. - 06/02/2010 06:39:31 PM 1439 Views
Well, to be fair, the text doesn't mention much - 07/02/2010 12:48:59 AM 1413 Views
Re: According to the Theoryland database RJ apparently said once... - 06/02/2010 06:28:15 PM 1414 Views
"Gawhine"... I like it. *NM* - 06/02/2010 08:40:32 PM 866 Views
If Gawyn is the best because he defeated two Warders, what about Rand? - 06/02/2010 09:15:34 PM 1412 Views
These are pointless. - 09/02/2010 12:52:21 AM 1464 Views
These are scalar comparatives - 24/02/2010 09:45:11 PM 1426 Views

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